Chipped engine block. JB weld?

[FinalImpact]

You are right on that. I definitely won't have the bike forever. I'm just skeptical of the overall durability of the JB weld and if the oil will erode it or cause it to break apart then there is a chunk flying around in my engine. Lots of possibilities. Just gotta make a decision I suppose. Question though, once I get the new stator and generator installed and if I were to bolt on the case, would the engine start at that point? Even with the hole on the block?

It will run.
Just like Marthy said and I mentioned up top, the only way you weld that stuff is to bake the oil out of it. Otherwise it just splatters EVERYWHERE!!!

But, aluminum is pretty forgiving and if you take your time and heat that area slowly, slowly slowly till its 325F (it gets to 200F on its own but in a bigger concentration), this will displace the oil so it can be welded. EVEN IF YOU JB it, do this, scuff it with a aggressive paper and the stuff will stick!!!!! Wipe repeatedly with lacquer thinner or acetone. Now if you wish to make it last. Scuff it lightly with 320 grit and cover it with interior engine sealant. Again, the prep is what makes it work. Anyone can smear **** on it.....

But first get some tools to check out the crank. You can rent what you need!

 

[kenken2812]

It will run.
Just like Marthy said and I mentioned up top, the only way you weld that stuff is to bake the oil out of it. Otherwise it just splatters EVERYWHERE!!!

But, aluminum is pretty forgiving and if you take your time and heat that area slowly, slowly slowly till its 325F (it gets to 200F on its own but in a bigger concentration), this will displace the oil so it can be welded. EVEN IF YOU JB it, do this, scuff it with a aggressive paper and the stuff will stick!!!!! Wipe repeatedly with lacquer thinner or acetone. Now if you wish to make it last. Scuff it lightly with 320 grit and cover it with interior engine sealant. Again, the prep is what makes it work. Anyone can smear **** on it.....

But first get some tools to check out the crank. You can rent what you need!

where could i rent that stuff? a motorcycle repair shop? and for using the JB the steps would be: aggresive paper (i assume sand paper), wipe with lacquer thinner, scuff again with 320, put engine sealant on, then the jb weld. is that correct? thanks!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds like I'm gonna have to pull the engine if I'd want to check out the specs on the crank.. That oughta be interesting. As of now I'm having a hell of a time trying to remove the generator, I've tried two different pullers and it won't budge. And skooter if you could pm me the details we can discuss it!

You don't have to pull the engine to check the crank. If you can't get a clamp on dial indicator, simply bolt on a small steel plate to one of the threaded holes. Use the magnetic base of the dial indicator to stick to that.

Re removing the generator. Its in the PDF Yamaha manual, to use a three arm puller with longer bolts. The three arm pullers are cheap (been around for ever) and your auto shop should have one as a loaner...

I'd check that crank FIRST as if its bent, the engine is toast anyway..

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Dear god don't use jb weld on anything mechanical, I've seen it on: engine blocks, X-cases, Transmissions, front & rear differentials, heads, and even gas tanks. The only one it successfully held up was the hole in the gas tank. I see it now and just shake my head. You know what I use it for? Plastic and rubber.

You think it will hold up going from hot to cold alot? It won't, and it really reflects on you as an owner doing half assed jobs. My 97 eclipse gs-t head was brazzened by the PO, god it looks terrible.

Is your bike fully covered? If so just file an insurance claim, sure your rates will go up but at least it will get fixed right. Or sell it.

If your bike isn't fully covered, sorry if it gets stolen.

Please don't think I'm rude, but jb weld wouldnt even be the very last thing I did.

 

[Marthy]

You don't have to pull the engine to check the crank. If you can't get a clamp on dial indicator, simply bolt on a small steel plate to one of the threaded holes. Use the magnetic base of the dial indicator to stick to that.

Re removing the generator. Its in the PDF Yamaha manual, to use a three arm puller with longer bolts. The three arm pullers are cheap (been around for ever) and your auto shop should have one as a loaner...

I'd check that crank FIRST as if its bent, the engine is toast anyway..

A little bit of heat on the generator might be just enough to make the tapper part expand. Use a propane torch. I will suggest you to drain the oil before you heat it up...

Hey Bandit, I agree with you the JB is not the best option but I used that stuff few time and even patch a valve cover on one of my race car when I was ice racing. It did last longer than I own the car... Like I mention before, the only good way to fix it is to replace the casing. Patching it with JB will get you some miles. Worst case it will leak... then redo it again. There's a screen on the oil pick up and a oil filter. So even if a small chunk get loose, no big deal. It will most likely be floating around until the next oil change.

At the very worst, the OP grenade his engine... the cost of fixing this one is just as much as finding a good used one on fleebay.

I've been working on racecars for the past 25 years or so. There's always 2 way to fix a problem. The best way and the way that you can get away with it. In this case, JB will do the job just fine. If the JB hold on and still sweat a bit of oil butter up a bit of Seal-All over it. You can get that at Advance auto Part. (It's a yellow tube) Good enough to patch fuel tank and oil pan.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Patching a VC would probably work, what I meant was to patch anything under high heat or pressure. Race cars are different animals, they may be put through there paces, but its completely different than something that is used every day. Mainly the fact that most people don't check there fluids everyday, they hop in, mash the gas, and don't care (most people)

I work for a used Carlot and cannot in my right mind use it lol.

 

[FinalImpact]

Just a while ago there was case where the chain tore off a chunk of block. It was seeping.

Again - the prep is everything.
Clean it with acetone.
Heat it with propane to cook the oil out
Wipe with acetone
Sand it w/60 grit
Acetone
Apply JB
Cure
- 1) Leave it
- 2) Scuff it and seal it. Read directions. If meant for direct exposure to heated petroleum products, maybe it will be oK?

In these parts we have tool rental places. You could rent a puller and a dial indicator for cheap. Although you could likely go to fleebay and get both for the cost of rental and keep them.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The correct and permanent fix (besides case replacement) would be welding it.

The engine is torn down to the same level as if using epoxy.

I'd be very concerned with the heat cycles the cases get to, if the epoxy would hold up to it... Should it fall out of the engine, ok, you have a major oil leak. Should it get sucked in, ground up and into the oiling system, it may very well starve an oil line/cam shaft, crank, etc (ie engine is junk).

Any real good TIG welder could lay several beads atop each other until the flat surface is reached. We did it ALL the time when I worked in the shop. We narrowed auto rear ends(12 bolts, 9" Fords, 8.75 Chryslers), made roll bars, made and/or modified auto axles from scratch, the stranger the project the better. Always something different.. Just for the welding on this engine, probably under $100.00. The grinding down, etc, you can do yourself for the cheap...

IMO, for $100, its not worth gambling with my engine.

A really good TIG welder can weld aluminum foil to itself so do your homework if shopping about and look at his work..

As a side note, We had to weld a leaky steel oil pan ON a car engine(still in the car). Of course the oil was drained, but the engine innerds will keep dripping literally for days.. We heated up the pan, heard a big poof from inside the engine, apparently the oil close to the heat, burned up. My boss, brazed it, upside down, while laying under the car... No more leaks...

 

[kenken2812]

thank you all for the input! i'm going to look into welders in the area and see if any are able to take on the task. if not, then it looks like i'll be getting some JB weld after all. i checked the crank today and it looks good, pulled off the generator finally (the couple whacks with a hammer tip was the key). i have a question though, i purchased a new generator and they look almost completely identical aside from the location and a few digits on a stamped on number, i'm posting pictures so you can see what i mean. will this be an issue?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Congrates on getting the old Gen off..

Whats the replacement generator off of(year, model, etc)?

Some really close measurements would be a good idea, total OD, ID, same # of magnets, etc.


Its not uncommon for Yamaha will change part #'s (I suppose for their inventory-Superceded part #'s, IE, front brake seals for the S2 bikes is one example).


Looks also like the cracked case partially took out a threaded, case hole too?

 

[kenken2812]

Yea, one of the bolt holes got partially taken out, I ran a bolt through and it still threads as is. I figure I might be able to use a tap and dye kit to rethread th hole after patchwork is done. New generator is off of an 09 fz6, I looked up oem parts and it says the 04-09 use the same entire generator assembly. Hopefully there will be no issue, although the 09 stator I got from the same seller was not comparable and I had to return it. I kept the generator because it looks virtually identical aside from the number stamp.

 

[Nelly]

Dear god don't use jb weld on anything mechanical, I've seen it on: engine blocks, X-cases, Transmissions, front & rear differentials, heads, and even gas tanks. The only one it successfully held up was the hole in the gas tank. I see it now and just shake my head. You know what I use it for? Plastic and rubber.

You think it will hold up going from hot to cold alot? It won't, and it really reflects on you as an owner doing half assed jobs. My 97 eclipse gs-t head was brazzened by the PO, god it looks terrible.

Is your bike fully covered? If so just file an insurance claim, sure your rates will go up but at least it will get fixed right. Or sell it.

If your bike isn't fully covered, sorry if it gets stolen.

Please don't think I'm rude, but jb weld wouldnt even be the very last thing I did.

If its insured that's the route to go.

Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yea, one of the bolt holes got partially taken out, I ran a bolt through and it still threads as is. I figure I might be able to use a tap and dye kit to rethread th hole after patchwork is done. New generator is off of an 09 fz6, I looked up oem parts and it says the 04-09 use the same entire generator assembly. Hopefully there will be no issue, although the 09 stator I got from the same seller was not comparable and I had to return it. I kept the generator because it looks virtually identical aside from the number stamp.

Yep, I don't believe there were any changes with the S1 and S2 but I didn't know if the replacment generator was off an r6 or something else. If its the same part # thru out the years, your good to go!

Even thou you have partial threads left in that hole, if welding, it'll likely have to be filled in, re-drilled and tapped. Just use the outer case for alignment purposes.

The stator was different? Bolt pattern or ?? Just curious...

 

[kenken2812]

Yep, I don't believe there were any changes with the S1 and S2 but I didn't know if the replacment generator was off an r6 or something else. If its the same part # thru out the years, your good to go!

Even thou you have partial threads left in that hole, if welding, it'll likely have to be filled in, re-drilled and tapped. Just use the outer case for alignment purposes.

The stator was different? Bolt pattern or ?? Just curious...

Stator was just different overall, it's hard to explain but the plug in was different, and the ends of each coil was different, mine was flat on the edges and this one had like a ridge on each one.
And yea if it get it welded ill most likely have to get it drilled. any tips for that procedure?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Stator was just different overall, it's hard to explain but the plug in was different, and the ends of each coil was different, mine was flat on the edges and this one had like a ridge on each one.
And yea if it get it welded ill most likely have to get it drilled. any tips for that procedure?

Whether you weld it or JB it, once the damaged case is filed down (pretty much done), I would (leave the stator off just yet) slip the outer case onto the block and just lightly snug it down.

HOPEFULLY, the welder, per you instructions, filled in that hole (you don't want a void where your new threads DON'T match up with the old) so you pretty much starting a new threaded hole from scratch.

Take a center punch, if need be, wrap duct tape around the end to help center it in the outer case hole , but still REACH THE BLOCK. Center punch it for the center.

Make sure you have the correct, metric tap and use the appropriate sized drill bit.

Id start with a 1/8 bit, put a small piece of tape on the bit so you know how deep to go and DON't go beyond that tape. It'd probably be a good idea to measure the depth of the hole (if theres enough left) before it gets welded.

Get 2 or 3 much longer metric bolts 2-3" long just to use a reference point. I'd gently bottom them out in the hole so their NOT drooping, more below.

Put those bolts in adjacent holes and get the bike on the centerstand. With another set of eyes (and if you have a "level bubble" on your drill) have your helper (and the bubble) line up the drill bit so its not crooked going in. The helper will pretty much be looking from different angles MAKING SURE the drill bit is lined up/parallel with the 2 or 3 long bolts. Again, some tape on the drill bit so you don't go too deep would be good.

Most taps have the first part of the tap slender before they get to full width/thread. Being this hole isn't very deep, the tap will only go in so far (certainly not enough). Either pick up a nother tap with a much flatter end for final cutting/(full depth) OR just take the original tap and grind down the end (tappered end) so you can pretty much run what's left of the tap thru to the bottom of the hole making threads all the way to the end. Make sure the ground down end of the tap is cleaned up (just run a nut down it) as you don't want to booger up your new aluminum threads...

I'm assumming you've used a tap, lots of oil, back and forth clearing the new theads, slow, steady progress. **If that tap breaks off in the case, as hard as it is, you just opened up another large can of worms**. Practice on some spare aluminum if need be to get the feel of it..

The soft aluminum block shouldn't be much of a challenge against the hardened tap but potentially not cleaning out the cuttings can cause an issue.

If your not comfy with the above, any decent machine shop should be able to do it fairly cheap and quickly.

That screw is just holding the case onto the main block, so its not like its supporting a high stress bearing/shaft, etc...:thumbup:

 

[kenken2812]

thanks to all for the help and suggestions! I got in contact with a few welders, and I found one who will do the job and tap and drill the new holes for me for 120-160 he said. i have the new stator on order right now, so hopefully in a few weeks it will be in and i can begin riding again!! :rockon: i'm now looking at possible crash cages for my bike as i never want this to happen again... does anyone know of any? or some very reliable frame sliders to look into? thanks again to all who have helped!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is he doing the final clean up(inside and outside smoothing down the gasket surface too?

I'm assuming so as it needs to be flat and have the cover on as a template.


Just as a side note, at impact, its very obvious your generator hit something (curb?) very solid and took the brunt of the force. No similar TOGs (like you had) will prevent that...

Some company does make a pipe assembly guard that bolts all the way around the front of the engine and the cases. (don't remember the brand). Either search on the forum, or someone will chime in. I think access to the oil filter might be impeded....



BTW, I believe your repairing it the right way and won't have to worry about any later issues..

 

[kenken2812]

Is he doing the final clean up(inside and outside smoothing and smoothing down the gasket surface too?

I'm assuming so as it needs to be flat and have the cover on as a template.


Just as a side note, at impact, its very obvious your generator hit something (curb?) very solid and took the brunt of the force. No similar TOGs (like you had) will prevent that...

Some company does make a pipe assembly guard that bolts all the way around the front of the engine and the cases. (don't remember the brand). Either search on the forum, or someone will chime in. I think access to the oil filter might be impeded....



BTW, I believe your repairing it the right way and won't have to worry about any later issues..

Yes they ought to be doing all they finishing as well. So I should be good to throw the parts on and ride (after changing the oil of course). I'm hoping I have no future issues, like you said I'm trying to do it the right way now so I don't have a reoccurring issue. Thanks for all of your help Scott, you've definitely been a great source of assistance!:thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yes they ought to be doing all they finishing as well. So I should be good to throw the parts on and ride (after changing the oil of course). I'm hoping I have no future issues, like you said I'm trying to do it the right way now so I don't have a reoccurring issue. Thanks for all of your help Scott, you've definitely been a great source of assistance!:thumbup:

Your very welcome..

That's not a bad price at all for everything he's doing. Just have to get him a new side case (if you haven't already) so he can drill and tap that hole. Couple hours on his end and your up to bat..

ALSO, DISCONNECT THE BATTERY before giving him the bike so the ECU DOESN'T get FRIED. Not likely BUT possible. Better safe than sorry...

Why the tank is up, IMHO, I'd just remove it altogether (for safety) and so it doesn't leak as he's going to have to tilt the bike over to the right side (the farther, the easier to weld). (No scratches either!)

I'd also re-iterate to him, when getting ready to grind, the inner block needs to be taped up/sealed, etc real good.. You don't want any aluminum/grinding grit getting inside the engine...

 

[Nelly]

thanks to all for the help and suggestions! I got in contact with a few welders, and I found one who will do the job and tap and drill the new holes for me for 120-160 he said. i have the new stator on order right now, so hopefully in a few weeks it will be in and i can begin riding again!! :rockon: i'm now looking at possible crash cages for my bike as i never want this to happen again... does anyone know of any? or some very reliable frame sliders to look into? thanks again to all who have helped!

Crash cages are great for engine protection but not necessarily good at protecting the rest of the bike. I have used decent sliders in the past and after slow speed drops have had very minimal damage with just superficial damage to the sliders.
Like you I was concerned with protecting the cases so installed engine bars and stubby sliders. Unfortunately they do not protrude out as far as sliders. A flop and drop the resulted in a smashed fairing and scratched up grab rail. These had previously been saved by the sliders. I have kept the cage but abd have also installed my old sliders for good measure.

Neil