Downshifting question

[craig007]

I have about 1 month and about 1000 miles of riding experience so far. At the MSF course we only got up to 2nd gear, so downshifting was not an issue. Now with the 6 speed FZ6 there are more issues.

Cruising in 5th or 6th at about 45 mph and there is a red light or stop sign ahead. I have been hitting the brakes and when I get to about 20 mph, I squeeze the clutch and shift all the way down to first (clutch squeezed the whole time). By the time I'm stopped, I'm in first. If the light changes before I'm stopped, I just kick it up to second and keep going.

I have been reading that "real" sports bikers downshift, one gear at a time, letting the clutch out in each gear, sometimes while applying the front brake. I guess this does keep the RPM's up, but it seems like a lot of work and engine braking.

Also when approaching a street corner that I know I will take at about 20 mph I have been squeezing the clutch and going directly to 2nd (by keeping the clutch lever squeezed and pumping down through the gears and releasing the clutch when I am in 2nd).

So, what is the poper technique. Are you supposed to downshift one gear at a time, always keeping the RPM's in the 4000 range (even when you know you are coming to a complete stop?

 

[besier]

Good question, I have about the same experience on the bike as you, and I am shifting the same way as you also. My interpretation of the manual is that we are doing it correctly, but I'm eager to see what the more experienced riders do...

 

[wrightme43]

I use the method I got from Total Control by Lee Parks.
It is a quick stab, not a full squeeze of the clutch, with a quick blip of the trottle to raise the rpms. Main point if the rpms are too high, no biggy its self fixing. If the rpms are too low it can be a real biggy, like locked rear wheel biggy.

So practice in a parking lot,
I know I have said buy Total Control a bunch, but buy Total Control, also buy Keith Codes Twist of the wrist II, and Pat Hahns Ride Hard Ride Smart. Pratice what they have to offer, its actually alot of fun to practice the skills that make riding safer, faster, and better.

 

[gmickey2001]

I like to downshift for braking.

I down shift and use the engine to slow, sometimes with the brake. You need to be careful though not to let the clutch out too fast, because if you are going too fast for that gear, you could lock up the back tire.

I like this method, because it keeps me in check with the speed/rpm relation. If I accidentally drop two gears, or lose track of what gear I'm in - it freaks me out. I feel lost!

BTW - I think 45 mph is way too slow for those gears. I would be in 3rd at that speed.

Just my opinion and preference of course.

Curious to hear what others have to say. :thumbup:

 

[sportrider]

you should be downshifting to every gear because.
1. if you are in a high gear and for any reason you should have to accellerate to avoid getting rear ended, the time it would take you to tap down to the correct gear you could already be hit.
2.to properly be in control of your bike you should be in the correct gear at all times aside from the forementioned engine braking is a part of braking.

proper downshifting is something you should practice until it becomes instinct. I can't imagine riding without it. there are different techniques people use, I prefer blipping the throttle to match engine speed with your road speed for the given gear your going into. I downshift all the way into first if done correctly its very smooth.
another way is to slowly slip the clutch to let the speeds sync up on there own. personally I think it comes down to rider preferance. but one thing I think any experianced rider will agree with is you should be doing it.:thumbup:

 

[CMHrider]

I agree 45 mph is too slow for 5th or 6th gear. I also downshift gear by gear. I have found that if I downshift and plan ahead of time I rarely have to apply brakes (except for obvious reasons) until I'm about to put my feet down. I've learned through this web site the FZ6 likes the RPM's so I've been more aggressive with RPM's and use the the engine to help stop.

 

[wrightme43]

Here is something that may help you as well.
Blip On Downshift - Cornering Forum

Clutch Usage - Cornering Forum
This one is very helpful to me.

You will love these books though, they have more than paid for themselves.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I'm with Sportrider, I downshift gear by gear, using my compression to slow me down, minimizing the use of my brakes. Since there are a lot of traffic lights here in Vegas, I am constantly downshifting and shifting back up again. It's nice to be in the right gear as I slow down when the light turns to green so I have the right torque to speed up again. I only down shift multiple times if I have to stop hard. I just have a bad habit to place my bike in neutral when I'm stopped at a red light. The reason is that I like to relax. But I know this is bad, you should always have it in gear just in case you need to move out of the way in a hurry. Funny thing, I was riding alongside a motorcycle cop one night, keeping up right alongside of him going 55 in a 45 leaving the rest of the traffic way behind. Anyway, at every intersection we came to a stop, he would kill his engine. When the light turned green, he would start it up again and go. Seemed kind of weird. I guess it gave him a better feel for him to notice if there were any traffic violations to be commited.

 

[shaggystyle]

Yeah, I've seen a few riders (not cops) around here doing the same thing. The first time it happened I thought the guy just wanted to chat while we were sitting at the light so I killed mine too and looked over at the guy. He kind of just looked at me weird for a sec, then the light changed and I had to scramble to get rolling again before traffic ran me over.

 

[wrightme43]

Thats a new one on me. I just go to first, then watch my mirrors, when I see that a car/truck whatever has stopped behind me, its up to nuetral and relax for a second, then keeping a eye on the other directions traffic lights to turn yellow, for back into gear.

 

[sportrider]

I'm the same, I stay in gear until I have a blocker behind me, then I'll check the cross signal lights to see if there yellow, if there green I'll shift into neutral and relax till the cross street turns yellow.

 

[craig007]

Thanks for all of the advice. I tried to downshift one-by-one on my way to and from work today. For me, slipping the clutch is easier than blipping. It's not smooth, but I'm working on it. It seems that when I roll off the throttle, I the bike slows fast enough. When I add the downshifting I slow too fast and end up driving in 1st or 2nd a little till I get to the stop. I'm not sure that I see a clear advantage yet, but I need to get better at it before I decide for sure.

In reading the manual it recommends shifting from 4th to 5th at 45 mph. So at 45 mph I can be at about 4500-5000 rpm in 4th or at about 3700 rpm in 5th. I was choosing 5th because it felt soother and quieter.

Are you guys saying that the shift points in the owners manual are too slow? (1-2 @ 19 mph, 2-3 @ 28 mph, 3-4 @37 mph, 4-5 @ 47 mph and 5-6 @ 56mph it lists the downshift points at 15.5 mph for all gears). I was trying to stick to the 4000 rpm recommendation suggested on this site somewhere. I gather that you guys disagree with the downshift points, but do you also disagree with the upshift points?

BTW I did buy the suggested books. I am in the middle of Ride Hard Ride Smart...then I will start Total Control

 

[sportrider]

it depends on how you're riding. just putting around I'll short shift but if I'm entering the freeway or canyon carving I'm all about 14,000 rpm shifts :thumbup:

 

[wrightme43]

ROCK ON MAN!!!
You will determine the correct place for you to downshift, according to the conditions, to traffic, to be very close to where you want to be in your powerband for your bike. The manual is about useless on shifting points IMHO.

 

[sportrider]

ROCK ON MAN!!!
You will determine the correct place for you to downshift, according to the conditions, to traffic, to be very close to where you want to be in your powerband for your bike. The manual is about useless on shifting points IMHO.

+1 I couldn't of said it better myself!!!:thumbup:

 

[poorwboy]

Thanks for all of the advice. I tried to downshift one-by-one on my way to and from work today. For me, slipping the clutch is easier than blipping. It's not smooth, but I'm working on it. It seems that when I roll off the throttle, I the bike slows fast enough. When I add the downshifting I slow too fast and end up driving in 1st or 2nd a little till I get to the stop. I'm not sure that I see a clear advantage yet, but I need to get better at it before I decide for sure.

In reading the manual it recommends shifting from 4th to 5th at 45 mph. So at 45 mph I can be at about 4500-5000 rpm in 4th or at about 3700 rpm in 5th. I was choosing 5th because it felt soother and quieter.

Are you guys saying that the shift points in the owners manual are too slow? (1-2 @ 19 mph, 2-3 @ 28 mph, 3-4 @37 mph, 4-5 @ 47 mph and 5-6 @ 56mph it lists the downshift points at 15.5 mph for all gears). I was trying to stick to the 4000 rpm recommendation suggested on this site somewhere. I gather that you guys disagree with the downshift points, but do you also disagree with the upshift points?

BTW I did buy the suggested books. I am in the middle of Ride Hard Ride Smart...then I will start Total Control

Just keep on practicing, It will come to you naturally. I personally dont even look at the tach or speedometer. You will get a feel and you will use your ears listening to the motor to downshift. Be patient and keep practicing and It will come.:thumbup:

 

[craig007]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I finally got it. It didn't make sense to me because I was doing wrong. I was letting the clutch out while I was blipping the throttle. No surprise....it was as bumpy ride. I finally discovered that you:

1. roll off of the throttle
2. squeeze the clutch
3. downshift
3. blip the throttle (on and off quickly)
4. after the throttle is off (or at least nearly off) but while the rpm's are still up, let off of the clutch.

Now downshifts are really smooth. I can do it while I'm on the front brake (but that still needs practice). Thanks again

 

[sportrider]

:thumbup: glad you're getting it down!!! proper shifting makes all the difference in the world!!!:Sport:

 

[wrightme43]

You got it now.
If you practice one skill each time you go out, you will get better and better.

 

[jamesfz6]

Be safe!

Everyone has different riding patterns. You are lucky and dont have enough experience to already have bad habbits. You should listen to all these other riders, they all make good points and have good reason to back them up.

I will have to agree with most of you here and say that 3rd gear is ideal for 45 because it puts you close enough to the powerband to avoid accidents if need be. Deffinatly(<<<<<I hope i spelled it right) try to practice using the engine to slow you down. Very useful to help avoid accidents when slowing, because if you have to speed up you are already in the right gear. Plus if you ever go to a track day you will be quicker in the turns using that method.:thumbup:

I know all i did was agree with you guys, but i felt like i needed to post.
Have fun and be safe!!!!
:iconbeer: (thought this smiley was just neat lookin. I do not encourage drinkin while riding a motorcycle at ANY time.)