Engine problem after a track day - help.

[trappy8]

I took my naked FZ6 2005 on a track day and now there is a problem with the engine, I was riding it fairly hard but not completely over the top.
As i was going round the engine began to make a tapping noise which increased with acceleration. I not sure exactly what caused this.
I pulled over due to this and as I slowed down to approximately 10 mph, as I got to this speed the engine cut out.
I attempted to start it via the switch and it would not start, just repeated clicked with nothing happening. (like the battery was flat).
I managed to bump start it and it ran again with the same noise.
It still now does not start and no one knows what is wrong with it without taking it to pieces. ANY IDEAS?
Is it going to be worth me getting this loooked at or will it be a new engine?
Any ideas where to get engines in the UK that will be ok?
what year engines will fit into a 2005 FZ6?
Is there a difference between the blck and silver engines?
Anyone know any mechanics to do this work?

Thanks Tom

 

[Motogiro]

You might have jumped a tooth or two on your timing chain. I don't know if the FZ6 has a free wheeling engine. Meaning an engine where the pistons don't hit the valves if the mechanical timing is off. You may have had catastrophic failure and have lots of damage. I don't remember reading about any of those failures on this forum as of yet but I'm sure there are members who know this engine better than I do who might jump in.
The engine has an auto cam tensioner and it may have failed and let the cams jump out of time. If the valves don't kiss the pistons, you could be okay replacing the tensioner and retiming the valve train.
The FZ6 engine is a pretty incredible motor. :rockon:

 

[youngy]

I'd be amazed if a 12.something compression engine was non interference.

Possibly the camchain tensioner is goosed........but then it could be pretty much anything.................. how loud is this tapping?

 

[tuningfork]

I would back track from the dead battery/no crank issue. Maybe something let loose in the stator mechanicals or starter motor/mechanism and that is causing both issues (noise and no-start)? Check the battery first, then check for mechanical issues on the charging and starting components.

 

[Motogiro]

I would back track from the dead battery/no crank issue. Maybe something let loose in the stator mechanicals or starter motor/mechanism and that is causing both issues (noise and no-start)? Check the battery first, then check for mechanical issues on the charging and starting components.

Excellent call!

 

[trappy8]

Sorry to be stupid, but what do you mean by non interference?

The tapping is not that loud and I believe it increases in speed with acceleration.

Do you think it would be worth getting someone to open it up to have a look or do you think it would be cheaper to stick a new engine in it?

 

[trappy8]

Cheers for the reply, the battery is fine as it runs ok when bump started (electric wise).

Would the starter motor make that noise when the engine is running?

And could this damage be caused in the circumstances I described?

 

[Motogiro]

Sorry to be stupid, but what do you mean by non interference?

The tapping is not that loud and I believe it increases in speed with acceleration.

Do you think it would be worth getting someone to open it up to have a look or do you think it would be cheaper to stick a new engine in it?

Disregard my first impression of what happened. I was thinking your motor didn't run anymore. If it runs and seems to have full power then your mechanical timing is probably okay and it may be another issue.
Some motors have enough clearance so that if a cam belt/chain breaks the pistons will not hit valve heads that are out of time. This is considered a non interference type but as someone already mentioned that's probably not the case. You could still have a bad cam tensioner making noise or a valve clearance issue. There are so many things that will make noise that it might be better to get some experienced ears to listen.

 

[youngy]

I thought the same, that the motor wouldn't run any more.

Like Motogiro said, if it runs and doesn't seem to be down on performance then it's probably not suffered major damage.

Have you had the front sprocket nut recall done? It's posible the nut has come off. That would make a speed related knocking noise.

Does the starter motor spin when you press the button? Or do you just get a click?

Running when bump started only means you're generating enough from the alternator to run the motor. It doesn't mean the battery is charging. This could be down to the alternator, regulator/rectifier or battery or even just loose connections.

Does the engine make this noise when the bike is stationery i.e. when you rev it or only when travelling? This would help determine whether it's a motor or transmission issue.

 

[trappy8]

Thanks for your post.

I personnaly have not had the nut recall done, im not sure if it previously has been though.


The motor does not spin, it just makes the clicking noise. It wont turn over at all and all power goes down on the display, like a flat battery. This issue happened as soon as I slowed down and it is a new battery. The noise in the engine came first before this starting problem, would the alternate cause this noise?


The bike makes this noise when it stationary and travelling. an increased knocking noise when higher revs.

Any further ideas?

 

[Motogiro]

Cheers for the reply, the battery is fine as it runs ok when bump started (electric wise).

Would the starter motor make that noise when the engine is running?

And could this damage be caused in the circumstances I described?

The starter uses what they call a "Sprag Clutch" It's a one way bearing assembly that will have different gear configurations and couplings depending on what application it is used in. If part of that mechanism is damaged I could see it making noise. See if you can jump start the bike from a car but Don't have the car engine running!
Just jump it battery to battery.
Is the noise specific to an area of the bike?

 

[Motogiro]

Thanks for your post.

I personnaly have not had the nut recall done, im not sure if it previously has been though.


The motor does not spin, it just makes the clicking noise. It wont turn over at all and all power goes down on the display, like a flat battery. This issue happened as soon as I slowed down and it is a new battery. The noise in the engine came first before this starting problem, would the alternate cause this noise?


The bike makes this noise when it stationary and travelling. an increased knocking noise when higher revs.

Any further ideas?

As tuningfork said you could have a problem in the stator assembly. That's your alternator. It's technically different from an alternator and called a stator. It uses a regulator/rectifier to convert the alternating fields to direct current and then shunt regulates the voltage. Shunt regulation is the reason not to have a car engine running when you jump your bike from a car. The cars alternator can toast the shunt regulator. So engine off on the car! :thumbup:

 

[youngy]

Thanks for your post.

I personnaly have not had the nut recall done, im not sure if it previously has been though.


The motor does not spin, it just makes the clicking noise. It wont turn over at all and all power goes down on the display, like a flat battery. This issue happened as soon as I slowed down and it is a new battery. The noise in the engine came first before this starting problem, would the alternate cause this noise?


The bike makes this noise when it stationary and travelling. an increased knocking noise when higher revs.

Any further ideas?

You could take off the alternator cover and look for signs of mechanical damage....... loose or missing stator bolts, loose rotor. Has the bike been dropped on the alternator side? I had a mk1 Fazer that went down on that side and a few thousand miles later the crank snapped behind the rotor.

This would conveniently explain the noise and the lack of charging, but until you take the cover off you won't know.

Certainly sounds like you have a charging problem as well though.

 

[tuningfork]

I have attached a pdf with the stator/starter service instructions, clipped from the 2004 service manual. Worth a peek under the cover to see if something is damaged, there is a clutch and a cam gear mechanism.

High rpms on the track "could" have resulted in a mechanical failure which is preventing the generator from spinning, and/or sustained high rpms could have electrically damaged the voltage regulator which might also give you charging system issues. The two issues are too coincedental for me to think you have internal problems...I rarely read about internal engine issues on these bikes.

Take a couple of minutes and electrically check the charging system voltage, that will give you an idea if you are heading in the right direction.

Let us know how how you make out. :thumbup:

 

[tuningfork]

here is a PDF with the starter motor....

 

[Motogiro]

I have attached a pdf with the stator/starter service instructions, clipped from the 2004 service manual. Worth a peek under the cover to see if something is damaged, there is a clutch and a cam gear mechanism.

High rpms on the track "could" have resulted in a mechanical failure which is preventing the generator from spinning, and/or sustained high rpms could have electrically damaged the voltage regulator which might also give you charging system issues. The two issues are too coincedental for me to think you have internal problems...I rarely read about internal engine issues on these bikes.

Take a couple of minutes and electrically check the charging system voltage, that will give you an idea if you are heading in the right direction.

Let us know how how you make out. :thumbup:

It looks like the starter is a separate unit from the stator assembly so the stator is doing single duty.

Ronayers.com Fiche Desktop Motorcycle Yamaha 2006 FZS6VC YZ6 STARTING MOTOR

 

[Morrisey]

Any chance you can post a video with the engine noise on it?

 

[youngy]

Run the engine, put your hand on the alternator casing. Can you feel the knock?

 

[tuningfork]

It looks like the starter is a separate unit from the stator assembly so the stator is doing single duty.

Ronayers.com Fiche Desktop Motorcycle Yamaha 2006 FZS6VC YZ6 STARTING MOTOR

Yeah, I jumped the gun with my initial post, so I added the starter motor service as well and edited so there isn't bad info in this thread...good catch!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A quick way to check the battery charging system is to put a volt meter across the battery terminals and check voltage. There should be 12.5 + volts. Then push the starter button and see the voltage...

Push start the bike, then check the charging voltage at around 5,000 RPM. It should be around 14 volts. If you get no charging or low charging, it'll point towards the stator/ something under the left side cover not right..

Also, can you narrow down where the ticking is coming from, top end, lower left case, right side case (cam chain?) That would be a big help.. Ticking on the top end would lean me towards a loose valve adjustment...

As stated before, both happening at the same time is most likely the same problem.. I wouldn't go motor shopping yet...

*Looking at the PDF of the stator, as stated above, I'd suspect perhaps you sheared off/broke something that works in conjunction with the starter. That would cause the clicking and not allow the starter to function.