Flashing gauge, won't start (or crank at all) - oh noes

[Extremity]

2005 Fz6 - somebody change "guage" to "gauge" in my subject >.>

So my bike sat for two years. Yeah. I had a family member that was supposed to start it and run it for a few minutes every week while I was out of the country, but they "couldn't figure out how to turn the key" and didn't call to let me know this. For two years. And they rode for like 10 years as a kid.

Whatever - usual crap for a bike sitting this long. My tank wasn't full, so the inside was rusted pretty bad. The first thing I did was replace the battery, which was totally dead and wouldn't charge. I haven't bought a new battery for this in so long that I didn't realize how much of a pain in the ass it is (at least here) - I went to four shops before driving to a Yamaha dealer 45m away that had one left. Battery went in, bike would crank up but wouldn't start.

Keep in mind that at this point, after putting in the new battery, it wont start but ATTEMPTS to start and the fuel gauge is NOT flashing.

I take the tank off and spend a batter half of the day cleaning it out as best I can. That small opening where the fuel pump is does *not* give very easy access but I wanted to do as much by hand as possible, pretty much destroying my arm in the process. I got about 90% of the rust out and what is left isn't going to fall off on its own - I'm going to look into just getting a new tank, but that's gonna come later.

I took the fuel pump apart carefully - I managed to get it out in one piece by slightly bending that little plastic piece that makes it hard to remove from the tank. Somebody here had posted to do this with needlenose pliers and it worked great, came right out and nothing broke (after 30m of trying to do it without the pliers). I know now that I could just take off the fuel level gauge arm thing before pulling it out - I'll do that next time. So yeah, I took the entire thing apart and cleaned it up as best as possible - it looked pretty good once I was done with it. I put it back together making sure everything was connected properly, and installed it back in the tank.

Put the tank back on, connected the stuff underneath, turned the key just to see what happened - flashing fuel guage (all bars) and no attempt to prime, but on the second try or so I heard some clicking from the fuel pump. Figured it was trying to prime but there was no gas. I put in a gallon of fresh gas and tried again, which is where I'm at now - the fuel gauge is flashing all bars, and now it's not cranking at all, it's not attempting to start.

Obviously it's something wrong with the pump but I can *not* afford a new fuel pump especially with the crazy cost of them. I don't think it's just a loose connection (unless it's one that I can't see) but I'm going outside now to check again. I *might* have put the fuel pump in backwards and bent the arm slightly but I'm not sure - if I did do that wouldn't the bike still start, and the worst would be my fuel gauge would be inaccurate? I'm going to go outside and check the connections and count the flashes to hopefully get a more specific answer with that. The service manual I have for an 05 does not reference the fuel gauge flashing at *all* and just references a check engine light type thing, which isn't on.

Sorry for the giant wall of text - I love this bike and I'm pretty pissed off about the condition its in, but as much as I wish I had a ton of money to dump into it I don't. The $104 for the battery (I'm too impatient to order online) sucked enough. Help! :c

Edit: Went and checked, flashes 8 times, 3 second downtime, repeats. Looks to be the same pattern I've seen posted here before, pretty much meaning "something isn't right". Hooray. I only have about a gallon of gas in there but I'm pretty sure that having low (even really low) gas wouldn't cause this.

The clicking I'm hearing, although I could have SWORN I heard the pump click, is coming from that little rear fairing piece near the seat lock. On the clutch side; the same location on the other side has the fuses, this just has some connectors and some other crap that I haven't really messed with. Everything looks connected and I doublechecked the connections under the tank too.

Edit #2:
I was getting ready to pull off the tank again at 1:45am and pull out the pump to see if I missed anything even though Im pretty sure I didnt. I decided to turn the key again first for the hell of it.

Pump primes.

Do it again, and again, and three more times. Primes beautifully, every time. Still wont crank at all. I'm pretty sure I'm not forgetting something obvious - kickstand up, in neutral, holding in clutch regardless, killswitch or whatever you guys call it isn't turned off, but pushing the starter just does... nothing. I even checked all the fuses. The tank isn't all the way down, it's resting on the front fairings (I dont want to bolt it down until it starts) and the seat isnt on but thats never prevented starting before.

The fact that it's priming has me even more weirded out. I honestly don't care about riding with no fuel gauge, which is what most of the people in the "flashing 8 times" posts have had. I just want it to start! So now I've got it flashing 8 times, 3 second gap between flashes, priming fine, but no attempt to start at all. Im still getting some clicking from that rear fairing but as far as I can remember that was normal..? I think I'm messing with my own head because I've listened to it enough times now that I'm starting to convince myself it's not normal. I really wish there was just some code saying "fix this".

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Flashing guage, won't start (or crank at all) - oh noes

Here's the electrical parts fisch for your bike.

2005 Yamaha FZ6 (FZS6T) Electrical 2 | Babbitts Online

That fuel pump will only go in one way or you couldn't hook up your fuel line, harnesses. As you noted, if you yank hard on the tank electrical harness, its not hard to disconnect power to the pump, etc..

That area you hear the clicking is called the left "POD" .

I would check all the fuses including the starter relay, PART #2. Unfortunatly, its not under the pod. There are other relays under the left pod which is probably what your hearing and may be your issue.

To my knowledge, I don't hear any clicking coming from there while starting mine.

I think, and Cliff will chime in, the "safety relay" that co-ordinates side stand switch, kill switch, etc is under that pod.

As for the blinking, I don't have an S1 owners manual as a PDF but in my S2 OWNERS MANAUL, the flashes etc are exactly the same as your experiancing (under instrument and control functions) indicating an electrical problem


** Also, check ALL YOUR FUSES before you go any farther(basic's FIRST)

[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]

 

[FinalImpact]

Scott,
Sorry - it needs to go. Leave a link if you like.
OP - its a free download from yamaha to grab the owners manual.

You sure the Kill switch isn't acting up or maybe put it in Neutral and pull the clutch, raise side stand; check all of those and see if any are misbehaving.

As for the meter; wires get strained and the jacket remains while the copper strands inside get broken. There have have been 3 other active threads this week on that topic so peak at those for pictures and T/S content. Also a sticky in the Tech section on pump repairs. Search is your friend!

 

[Extremity]

I've checked all the basics. Kill switch wiring looks good - I'm also pretty sure it's working because if I turn the key with it OFF, no priming - as soon as I put it to on, primes.

I checked all the fuses on the brake side of the bike in the rear pod, those are all good. I'm not exactly a pro with electrical diagram but there are fuses on the other side? In those "boxes"? I'm going to have to look at those I suppose. I coulda sworn it was a normal "clicking on" sound but I guess it could be some sort of electrical short I'm hearing.

It's just weird how it tried to crank at first but no prime, I clean the pump, wouldn't prime, now all of a sudden it's priming great but won't turn over.

If I had some sort of issue like plugs, bad fuel, whatever - it'd still TRY to turn over and just wouldn't start, right? For it just not doing anything when I push the starter, with a brand new battery charged to full, it's pretty much got to be electrical or some sensor telling the bike not to start, right?

 

[Nelly]

2005 Fz6 - somebody change "guage" to "gauge" in my subject >.>

So my bike sat for two years. Yeah. I had a family member that was supposed to start it and run it for a few minutes every week while I was out of the country, but they "couldn't figure out how to turn the key" and didn't call to let me know this. For two years. And they rode for like 10 years as a kid.

Whatever - usual crap for a bike sitting this long. My tank wasn't full, so the inside was rusted pretty bad. The first thing I did was replace the battery, which was totally dead and wouldn't charge. I haven't bought a new battery for this in so long that I didn't realize how much of a pain in the ass it is (at least here) - I went to four shops before driving to a Yamaha dealer 45m away that had one left. Battery went in, bike would crank up but wouldn't start.

Keep in mind that at this point, after putting in the new battery, it wont start but ATTEMPTS to start and the fuel gauge is NOT flashing.

I take the tank off and spend a batter half of the day cleaning it out as best I can. That small opening where the fuel pump is does *not* give very easy access but I wanted to do as much by hand as possible, pretty much destroying my arm in the process. I got about 90% of the rust out and what is left isn't going to fall off on its own - I'm going to look into just getting a new tank, but that's gonna come later.

I took the fuel pump apart carefully - I managed to get it out in one piece by slightly bending that little plastic piece that makes it hard to remove from the tank. Somebody here had posted to do this with needlenose pliers and it worked great, came right out and nothing broke (after 30m of trying to do it without the pliers). I know now that I could just take off the fuel level gauge arm thing before pulling it out - I'll do that next time. So yeah, I took the entire thing apart and cleaned it up as best as possible - it looked pretty good once I was done with it. I put it back together making sure everything was connected properly, and installed it back in the tank.

Put the tank back on, connected the stuff underneath, turned the key just to see what happened - flashing fuel guage (all bars) and no attempt to prime, but on the second try or so I heard some clicking from the fuel pump. Figured it was trying to prime but there was no gas. I put in a gallon of fresh gas and tried again, which is where I'm at now - the fuel gauge is flashing all bars, and now it's not cranking at all, it's not attempting to start.

Obviously it's something wrong with the pump but I can *not* afford a new fuel pump especially with the crazy cost of them. I don't think it's just a loose connection (unless it's one that I can't see) but I'm going outside now to check again. I *might* have put the fuel pump in backwards and bent the arm slightly but I'm not sure - if I did do that wouldn't the bike still start, and the worst would be my fuel gauge would be inaccurate? I'm going to go outside and check the connections and count the flashes to hopefully get a more specific answer with that. The service manual I have for an 05 does not reference the fuel gauge flashing at *all* and just references a check engine light type thing, which isn't on.

Sorry for the giant wall of text - I love this bike and I'm pretty pissed off about the condition its in, but as much as I wish I had a ton of money to dump into it I don't. The $104 for the battery (I'm too impatient to order online) sucked enough. Help! :c

Edit: Went and checked, flashes 8 times, 3 second downtime, repeats. Looks to be the same pattern I've seen posted here before, pretty much meaning "something isn't right". Hooray. I only have about a gallon of gas in there but I'm pretty sure that having low (even really low) gas wouldn't cause this.

The clicking I'm hearing, although I could have SWORN I heard the pump click, is coming from that little rear fairing piece near the seat lock. On the clutch side; the same location on the other side has the fuses, this just has some connectors and some other crap that I haven't really messed with. Everything looks connected and I doublechecked the connections under the tank too.

Edit #2:
I was getting ready to pull off the tank again at 1:45am and pull out the pump to see if I missed anything even though Im pretty sure I didnt. I decided to turn the key again first for the hell of it.

Pump primes.

Do it again, and again, and three more times. Primes beautifully, every time. Still wont crank at all. I'm pretty sure I'm not forgetting something obvious - kickstand up, in neutral, holding in clutch regardless, killswitch or whatever you guys call it isn't turned off, but pushing the starter just does... nothing. I even checked all the fuses. The tank isn't all the way down, it's resting on the front fairings (I dont want to bolt it down until it starts) and the seat isnt on but thats never prevented starting before.

The fact that it's priming has me even more weirded out. I honestly don't care about riding with no fuel gauge, which is what most of the people in the "flashing 8 times" posts have had. I just want it to start! So now I've got it flashing 8 times, 3 second gap between flashes, priming fine, but no attempt to start at all. Im still getting some clicking from that rear fairing but as far as I can remember that was normal..? I think I'm messing with my own head because I've listened to it enough times now that I'm starting to convince myself it's not normal. I really wish there was just some code saying "fix this".

Are you throwing any error codes?
I had this exact same issue with my bike. I had pulled one of the wires out of the fuel pump sending connector when lifting the tank.. Flash for eight seconds pause for three.
I was able to re solder one wire and re crimp the other wire with a very fine engineers screwdriver. I actually extend the wires to stop the problem happening again.
With all my messing about my new battery had become flat with me constantly turning the engine over. Heres my link:http://www.600riders.com/forum/gara...fuel-gauge-error-nelly-mechanical-genius.html
As a side, generally the bike is pretty bullet proof, in my eight years of ownership all of my gremlins have been very straight forward to fix. Start with the simple stuff and you wont go far wrong. I speak from experience because my mechanical / electrical engineering skills are simple. I think that when you lifted the tank you accidentally pulled the wiring out of the connector for the fuel sending unit. This is by far the most common way to incur the dreaded 8 flashes and 3 second pause.

Good luck

Nelly

 

[Motogiro]

I've checked all the basics. Kill switch wiring looks good - I'm also pretty sure it's working because if I turn the key with it OFF, no priming - as soon as I put it to on, primes.

I checked all the fuses on the brake side of the bike in the rear pod, those are all good. I'm not exactly a pro with electrical diagram but there are fuses on the other side? In those "boxes"? I'm going to have to look at those I suppose. I coulda sworn it was a normal "clicking on" sound but I guess it could be some sort of electrical short I'm hearing.

It's just weird how it tried to crank at first but no prime, I clean the pump, wouldn't prime, now all of a sudden it's priming great but won't turn over.

If I had some sort of issue like plugs, bad fuel, whatever - it'd still TRY to turn over and just wouldn't start, right? For it just not doing anything when I push the starter, with a brand new battery charged to full, it's pretty much got to be electrical or some sensor telling the bike not to start, right?

Make sure there is oil in the crank case. Make a jumper to carry enough current to run the starter. The starter relay is on top of the battery. Turn the key to on, bike in neutral and jump The 2 heavy gauge wires) across the starter relay. Does it start?

 

[Extremity]

Make sure there is oil in the crank case. Make a jumper to carry enough current to run the starter. The starter relay is on top of the battery. Turn the key to on, bike in neutral and jump The 2 heavy gauge wires) across the starter relay. Does it start?

Give me a few minutes to try this. I don't know much about relays... I mean I understand what they are and how they work, I've just never really had to mess with them. Im just connecting what the relay would connect, right?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Make sure there is oil in the crank case. Make a jumper to carry enough current to run the starter. The starter relay is on top of the battery. Turn the key to on, bike in neutral and jump The 2 heavy gauge wires) across the starter relay. Does it start?

And to add, as I did in post #2(click on that parts link), the starter relay Cliff refers to is above the battery and there is a FUSE there.

While the tank is up, just for S&G's, check the tightness of the battery terminals, and that the positive plastic COVER is NOT stuck inbetween the terminal and + wire..

All your symptoms point to a loose wire/intermediate connected fuse somewhere.

 

[Extremity]

And to add, as I did in post #2(click on that parts link), the starter relay Cliff refers to is above the battery and there is a FUSE there.

While the tank is up, just for S&G's, check the tightness of the battery terminals, and that the positive plastic COVER is NOT stuck inbetween the terminal and + wire..

All your symptoms point to a loose wire/intermediate connected fuse somewhere.

Battery connections are good. Everything is getting power, lights, brake lights working, signals, horn, etc. Fuel pump is priming when I turn the key, sounds pretty strong, better than before I left it in fact (probably due to me cleaning the pump?)

Everything from turning the key until when I push the starter seems to be fine. Like I said in the post, the pump WASN'T priming and then half an hour later just started to on its own. I don't think it's an issue with the battery or the connections, at least not AT the battery - it's a brand new battery and I still cleaned the terminals for the hell of it, the screws are securely in and all the connections look solid, the plastic cover is not between any connection points, and I charged the battery to full after purchasing and then left it on the trickle charger for another hour.

Turn key - pump primes, I can hear a slight "click" when I flip the kill switch on or off near that rear clutch-side pod, but absolutely nothing happens when I hit the starter. No attempt to start, nothing. I'm still trying to figure out how to jump the relay for the starter like I was told a few posts up, it's that thing on top of the battery? With a white clip and the two fuses on either side? Those fuses look good but I haven't been able to get the white clip out or the plastic covers off the fuses so I guess I can't be 100%. I'm still trying to figure out how to jump this thing without wrecking something - I'm sure it's simple, I've just never done it before so I'm nervous.

I wish one of you was near Baton Rouge :c

Oh yeah - I know that a LOT of the flashing light issues have been with loose wires in the connections under the tank. I've checked them all and they look okay. I mean maybe it would be best for me to redo them anyways, but as far as that goes - if the pump is priming on keyturn, wouldn't that mean that at least the connector for pump power is alright, even if the fuel gauge connector wasnt (and I think its fine too)? And would that really inhibit the engine from turning at ALL?

Should I do that Diag thing to see if a code is being thrown? If something is telling the bike to prevent starting it'd tell me there, right?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Tks for the update.

I just checked my 07.

Pump primes of course with the key turned on for maybe 3-5 seconds(normal).

**There is a click from the left pod WHEN I initially turn the key ON AND the pump primes.

When the pump STOPS PUMPING, I hear the same click AGAIN.

When I turn the ignition OFF, it clicks once again.

(never started the bike during this as it will crank start)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Cliff, do I remember something (relay maybe?) about the overall safety interlock (for clutch, side stand, etc) unit being under the left pod? The parts fisch shows TWO relays under there (but I don't know what they do)..

If so, that could be the clicking but if the relay has a crappy contact inside, its not allowing power to the starter relay??

 

[pulsar2]

How about trying to push start it? This might help if the starter relay is not engaging for some reason. Try it if you feel confident that nothing else is broken.

 

[Extremity]

How about trying to push start it? This might help if the starter relay is not engaging for some reason. Try it if you feel confident that nothing else is broken.

I'm down to try it, the only issue being that the rear tire also went flat while it sat, so push starting it is... not easy. I don't have any way to put air in it where I'm at, I'd have to bring it to a gas station, and I don't have a trailer or truck. I have pretty much the worst possible supplies for working/transporting this until it's running.

I'm trying to figure out how to jump the starter relay - I called the local Yamaha shop and the guy there said the same thing - he said the solenoid but that's pretty much the same, right? He said to just arc it with a screwdriver or something and see if it tries to start.

Somebody said it's on top of the battery - I've got that piece that has the white clip in the center, and two fuses with plastic covers on either side. Beneath it (on the same piece, just under the clip) is a red wire on one side bolted to it and connected to the battery's positive terminal, and the other side has a black wire, also bolted to it, running down into the frame.

Is that what I jump? Where the connection from the battery meets that piece to the connection that runs down to the frame?

All of the fuses under the brake-side rear pod look good and I replaced any that looked even *slightly* worn on the teeth.

 

[Motogiro]

Give me a few minutes to try this. I don't know much about relays... I mean I understand what they are and how they work, I've just never really had to mess with them. Im just connecting what the relay would connect, right?

There are 2 wires on that relay that are light gauge wires. One is red with a white tracer and the other is blue with a white tracer. Do not connect anything to these wire. There should be a wire from the positive terminal or wire on the relay assembly and a wire or lugnut with a wire that goes to the starter. I would like to see if you can jump that relay so that current can flow from the positive battery terminal to the starter. You need a heavy gauge wire to do this so that you won't super heat a light gauge wire. Especially while your fingers are on it. This will be a momentary test to see that the starter is active or not. From there we can start trouble shooting what direction we'll need to go. There is no high voltage in these circuits so don't worry about that. There is high current (Starter motor) in these circuits and we do want to pay attention to that.

 

[Extremity]

There are 2 wires on that relay that are light gauge wires. One is red with a white tracer and the other is blue with a white tracer. Do not connect anything to these wire. There should be a wire from the positive terminal or wire on the relay assembly and a wire or lugnut with a wire that goes to the starter. I would like to see if you can jump that relay so that current can flow from the positive battery terminal to the starter. You need a heavy gauge wire to do this so that you won't super heat a light gauge wire. Especially while your fingers are on it. This will be a momentary test to see that the starter is active or not. From there we can start trouble shooting what direction we'll need to go. There is no high voltage in these circuits so don't worry about that. There is high current (Starter motor) in these circuits and we do want to pay attention to that.

Alright, so the one side bolted to it that connects to the battery, jump to the opposite side that's also bolted down but that runs into the frame to the starter.

The thickest wire I have is some that I was using for a small amp in my SUV, that would probably do the trick. I'll try now. I don't have to unbolt the connections, correct? Just pull back the rubber covers and touch the wire to connect them, and just for a second to see if it tries to crank? I'm doing it now, I'll let you know in a few minutes what happens

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Deleted by writer.

 

[Extremity]

I tried connecting them. Key in, kickstand up, in neutral, killswitch on (ie set to run)

Here's a picture of what I connected, is this right? Oh yeah, nothing happened. At all.

Sorry if the picture is huge. The two connections that have the rubber covers near my thumb - I pulled back the rubber enough to touch both ends of the wire* to either side. I touched to the bolts, does that matter? I didn't think it would, I couldn't really expose much more.

 

[Motogiro]

I tried connecting them. Key in, kickstand up, in neutral, killswitch on (ie set to run)

Here's a picture of what I connected, is this right? Oh yeah, nothing happened. At all.

Sorry if the picture is huge. The two connections that have the rubber covers near my thumb - I pulled back the rubber enough to touch both ends of the rubber to either side. I touched to the bolts, does that matter? I didn't think it would, I couldn't really expose much more.

Jumping across those lugs should have spun the starter. It sounds like you could have a starter motor failure.Make sure the key is in the off position and hunt down that wire from the starter to the starter relay to make sure a rodent didn't gnaw it in half. Very rare to hear of a starter going on the fritz on the FZ6 but it has happened. Sometimes grunge will keep voltage from passing to the commutator from a brush.

 

[Motogiro]

Also in that picture you took...Is that red wire taped up down below???

 

[Motogiro]

I PMed you...Call me!