Flashing gauge, won't start (or crank at all) - oh noes

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Would disconnecting the starter (at the starter), then run 12 volts to the starter terminal and grounded to the engine confirm its the starter that's failed?

Basically separating the starter from the bike (but still bolted up)

 

[Extremity]

The thing is, like I said, the starter was *fine* before I took off the tank and cleaned the fuel pump. It worked no problem, AND the light wasn't flashing on the fuel gauge. I guess it's POSSIBLE that the starter failed in the hour that I had the tank off, but isn't it more likely that something came undone?

Assuming I jumped the right two terminals, nothing happened. Like I said I touched at the bolt, but I think that should be fine?

As for the taped wire, the connection is soldered/connected properly, I'd just wrapped some tape around it afterwards and apparently the tape did not withstand the test of time. I need to go through and make everything pretty again.

I also got hit by a deer - literally, a deer ran into me while I was riding down a rode and smashed into my right side - which destroyed the front right fairing. I had it taped up until I could replace it, but I've been gone so long I just never got around to it. Now the tape looks all crappy and it's just... the bike deserves better. I just can't justify cosmetics until it's running.

Anyways, jumping that connection, assuming I did it right, is reaching close to the extent of my electrical knowledge. I'm down to try whatever, I just might need a little handholding.

I really appreciate all the help you guys are offering. I've been here for a while and while I haven't logged on while out of town, I've never needed this much help from here before and you guys are awesome.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Did you ever check the Tip Over Switch (TOS) under the rt pod? If that's damaged or the bike hasn't run since the deer crash, it may be an issue..

Where it says "UP", that's the TOS;

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Please post what you both find if you make progress...

 

[Motogiro]

Cliff,

Would disconnecting the starter (at the starter), then run 12 volts to the starter terminal and grounded to the engine confirm its the starter that's failed?

Basically separating the starter from the bike (but still bolted up)

You could run a jumper from the battery positive terminal to the lug right at the starter and it should spin the starter. Just be careful to not touch the engine with the jumper. I doubt it's a ground problem because I believe there would be other problems.


Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[Motogiro]

Confirm there is continuity from the starter relay to the starter......

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[Extremity]

Please post what you both find if you make progress...

The bike ran for a while after the deer crash. The bike was still in Florida then, and it's been in Louisiana for years since then. I rode it for at least a year with no problems before leaving it here for that extended period of time.

I don't think it's the ToS but I will check just in case.

I'm trying to sort of deduce what could have gone wrong in the process. If we look at it sort of as a step by step...

1. Bike is totally dead. Battery will not charge. I buy a new battery, make sure it's charged to full, and install it. I also remove the top of the airbox to inspect the filter and box itself; a bit of stuff in there on the pre-filter side (front end). I clear it out and clean the filter.
2. Bike attempts to start, fuel light not flashing (but low tank indicator flashing, and I did have a low tank). Won't start but attempts to.
3. I take off the tank and inspect it - lots of rust inside. I clean it out as best as I can. I also remove the fuel pump, take it apart, clean every inch of it.
4. I re-install the fuel pump into the tank, put the tank back on the bike.
5. I put a fresh gallon of gas into the tank - just regular, not premium.
6. When attempting to start the bike, the gas gauge is now flashing and the pump will not prime at all, and the starter does nothing.
7. A half hour later, the pump is now randomly priming on every keyturn. I know the killswitch is functioning because if I turn the key with it set to OFF, the pump will not prime until I set it to ON.


So based on that and what I did, and considering the starter ATTEMPTED to start the bike near step 2 and has stopped doing so around step 5, I didn't really mess with anything anywhere other than the battery compartment or under/in the tank. It's got to be something there, right?

While it's possible that something else randomly began to fail during the time I had the tank off, it's most likely something happened during that process, right? Now if the connections under the tank weren't connected properly, would the pump still be priming? Out of all of the things I've read related to the fuel gauge flashing I don't recall any of them preventing the bike from turning over at all - maybe it wouldn't start, but it always TRIED to start. I'm at a loss. And I'm losing daylight >.<

 

[Motogiro]

Extremity, Call me!

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[Extremity]

Alright, so Motogiro and I have spent quite a few hours going over a ton of stuff on here. Where we're at now (I think) narrows it down to the starter switch itself or the wire coming out of it, somewhere along its path. I still dont know how that happened while I was working on the tank but I guess weirder things have happened.

1) Bike turns/starts if I jump the starter relay to bypass it - it has two large connections on the bottom, one going to battery positive and one running down to the starter. Connecting them with a pair of pliers starts the bike.
2) Bike turns/start if I jump the blue+white wire in the connector near starter relay to a ground
3) Bike turns/starts if I jump the white+blue wire in the rear clutch-side pod 16-pin connector to a ground

So according to him, and he knows WAY more about this than I do, this means that the ECU is *not* preventing the bike from starting, my relay is functioning fine (I took it out and manually wired it to the battery to make sure it was activating), and obviously my starter is fine.

I think I've worked out anything crazy or expensive being broken - once it started it ran beautifully. I have a flat tire so I couldnt actually take it out, but I revved it up and let it sit for a minute, no problems.

We're trying to figure out which wire to test near the starter button. Apparently it's supposed to be white w/ blue stripe, but all I have are red, blue w/ white stripe, black, and red w/ stripe (cant remember color). Once I can figure that out Ive got to test that to see if the switch isnt functioning.

I guess once this is fixed I can start trying to figure out why the fuel gauge is flashing. Moto had to get off the phone for the evening so Im going to tinker with this a bit myself before bed, but hopefully I'll be able to start this thing with a button instead of a paperclip or pair of pliers tomorrow. Hooray!

 

[Motogiro]

Good Job! ^^^^^:rockon:

 

[Extremity]

So I went outside to put some stuff back on the bike until tomorrow (it's in a car port so I don't want to leave it totally open out there). I randomly tried to start it, nothing.

I put the kickstand up and held in the clutch and... it started right up. We tried that literally 10 times. It won't start with the stand down in neutral, but with the stand up, in neutral, AND clutch in it started right up. I rode down the road to put air in the rear tire and then took it for a bit of a run. Let it warm up, topped out first and second, ran beautifully.

Stopped to put in a bit more gas, since I'd originally only put in a fresh gallon. Tried to start it after filling it up with about another gallon and a half - first time wouldn't start. Second time, turned over for a solid 5-7 seconds, I opened up on the gas a bit, and it started. Rode it around again, no problems.

I'm a little worried about the slow start at the station. I'm also a little worried about how the fuel pump didnt work, then randomly started working - now the bike just randomly started starting, after moto and I spent like 6 hours on it. I'm either really lucky or missing something really stupid. I feel like I still need to check over the same things as I would if it hadn't started?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Lots of progress but remember, you've been doing a LOT of cranking with the battery and it ISN'T nearly fully charged with that short bit of riding/running.

That ALONE will cause issues. Put the battery on a charger (1.25 AMP automatic)

Not sure if the kick stand switch is causing some of your issues BUT, its easily checked/cleaned(should be done anyway as they do crap up over time).

You don't have to unplug it.

Simply put the bike on the CC and unbolt the switch adjcent to the kick stand. I believe there's two small screws holding the cover on.

(I put a short stool next to the kick stand and just work on there).

Take the cover off, there IS A SPRING INSIDE THERE, so be careful.

You'll also see the electrical contacts that MUST be clean.

One member had a spring that RUSTED AWAY. A retractable "PEN" spring was trimmed and worked perfectly as a replacement.

Some fresh dilectric grease back inside while re-assembling and your good to go.

If you want to by pass the kick stand switch, connect the two wires together. The ECU will think the stand is up ALL THE TIME.

And get some sleep!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You could run a jumper from the battery positive terminal to the lug right at the starter and it should spin the starter. Just be careful to not touch the engine with the jumper. I doubt it's a ground problem because I believe there would be other problems.

What I was getting at is to isolate the starter and test it W/O removing the starter from the bike. Moot point now as that's not the issue. :thumbup:

 

[Motogiro]

What I was getting at is to isolate the starter and test it W/O removing the starter from the bike. Moot point now as that's not the issue. :thumbup:

Sorry if any confusion. The test I had him do at the starter relay/solenoid on top of the battery had originally failed but it was the wire he was using as a jumper that failed. I had him make sure it was in neutral, take some needle nose pliers and stab those 2 lugs and the starter ran. We traced the starter activation all the way passed the safety cutout relay and it operated the starter. This meant the the safety was allowing start while the bike was in neutral. We had already started the bike (Engine running) when we bypassed the starter relay/solenoid.

We traced all the way to the starter button side of the circuit when I had to shut down shop last night. We did some good work last night!

I met his grandma (probably near my age) on the phone and we had some laughs. She used to live in LA and knows folk in the next town west of me in La Jolla. I told him to go to bed and don't keep granny awake all night! Lol!

He may have an intermittent through the handle bar harness if he could start it after we got of the phone. It needs to be confirmed.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You da man!!!!! :thumbup:

 

[Extremity]

I just found all my gear and took it for another ride.

I charged the battery but it still took almost ten seconds to start. I went to give it some gas and it started right up - so quickly, in fact, that I'm not sure if it was me hitting the throttle or just coincidentally choosing then to start.

Aside from that it ran fine. I kept it low for a while in a parking lot, making sure I could get through first and comfortably into second without it shuddering or stalling or anything. Once I was confident with that I took it out on a main road. Went through every gear just fine, I got up to about 130 before I decided that was probably enough after not riding for two years. You really never forget though, I was worried I'd be all clunky on it. I had a bit of trouble getting it into neutral at a few lights but I can't really tell if that's the bike or me just needing to get a feel for it again.

My fuel gauge is still flashing and for that I'm 99% sure I'm going to have to take out the fuel pump again and check the arm. Like I said, I think I put it in backwards/facing the wrong way - I know that if you do this the connectors wont line up, but I had the tank off the bike so I didn't really know which way at first. I should have went and looked.

I don't think the arm is pinned against the tank - I assumed that if I had just bent it, it'd just have inaccurate fuel level readings (like bending the arm that the floaters on in the back of a toilet - terrible comparison, but you get what I mean).

Should I be worried about anything with this delayed starting? It sat for SO long, could there just be some crap thats gunking up a line?

So far the solutions to the "not running" issues in this thread have been "test a lot of connections, clean the pins above the starter relay, and go drink a beer because things will probably fix themselves in about an hour". Lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Some fuel additive, (Chevron Techtron, Yamaha's "RingFree" is about the best) wouldn't hurt. I use the RingFree in EVERY gas engine I own. Its extremly popular in the marine world. https://www.yamahapartsandaccessories.com/product/details/ring-free-plus?b=Search&d=34

The more you ride it, the easier it will be to start. With my new battery, if it takes 1.5 seconds to start, thats a long time...

You probably already know, its easier to take the fuel pump out in two pieces BUT in can go back in as one piece.

*While its out, I would plug in the gauge to the harness and move the lever up and down watching the dash gauge.

 

[Extremity]

Some fuel additive, (Chevron Techtron, Yamaha's "RingFree" is about the best) wouldn't hurt. I use the RingFree in EVERY gas engine I own. Its extremly popular in the marine world. https://www.yamahapartsandaccessories.com/product/details/ring-free-plus?b=Search&d=34

The more you ride it, the easier it will be to start. With my new battery, if it takes 1.5 seconds to start, thats a long time...

You probably already know, its easier to take the fuel pump out in two pieces BUT in can go back in as one piece.

*While its out, I would plug in the gauge to the harness and move the lever up and down watching the dash gauge.

Is there anything you'd suggest that I can buy at walmart/autozone/etc? I mean does any fuel additive/cleaner/whatever work?

As for the pump... if I take the pump out, I just hook up the single connector for the gauge with the pump completely out of the tank or do I plug in BOTH connectors? I'm assuming that if I only plug in the one for the gauge that the gas gauge will still flash as its not detecting pump power, but I don't really want to power the pump with it out of the tank?

If I take out the pump and it does end up being the arm, would it be obvious what's wrong or could there be something tiny or mechanical that I can't spot by eye?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is there anything you'd suggest that I can buy at walmart/autozone/etc? I mean does any fuel additive/cleaner/whatever work?

As for the pump... if I take the pump out, I just hook up the single connector for the gauge with the pump completely out of the tank or do I plug in BOTH connectors? I'm assuming that if I only plug in the one for the gauge that the gas gauge will still flash as its not detecting pump power, but I don't really want to power the pump with it out of the tank?

If I take out the pump and it does end up being the arm, would it be obvious what's wrong or could there be something tiny or mechanical that I can't spot by eye?

Walmart, most auto parts places carries the Techtron, black bottle, about $8.00. You can use it on the heavy side. It may take a couple of tanks depending on how much varnish, carbon, crap is in the system.

The Yamaha RingFree isn't cheap but its used at 1oz/ 10 gallons. If you have a Yamaha marina around, they'll have it in stock.

I would leave the pump itself un-plugged (their two separate units, two separate circuits too). Plug the gauge into the main harness (out of the tank), turn on the key and it should register. Moving the lever up and down should show on the dash gauge as well.

If you look in the tank, (while the pump is out), look in the area (from the bottom) of where the lever resides, look hard for any area's where the float arm may be touching/striking/jambing up against the tank. Obviously it shouldn't. Like the toilet lever, it can be tweeked if need be.

Needless to say, there should be a float on the end of that arm along with a retainer. If its gone, the arm will just lay on the bottom of the tank and show an empty tank on the dash gauge..

 

[Extremity]

Alright, I'm going to go grab that from Walmart in about half an hour and hopefully that will help it start a little better.

In other random news - I did that dual headlight mod... I can't remember who, but back in the day (maybe still) one of you fabricated and sold that custom made cable that you could wire into the factory harness and then your bulb plug for the dual headlight mod. I retrofitted HIDs at the same time I did that. I've got both lights on, but my light switch does nothing. Doesn't go from two to one, high to low, nothing. My brights are on at all times. The switch does activate the blue dash indicator light for your brights being on but nothing actually changes, the "shield" in the HIDs doesn't move, etc. The more that I look into things the more I feel like I've gotta have some electrical gremlins somewhere.

I will put in the fuel additive and ride it around a bit and let you know if it starts to start a little better. Thanks for all the help.