Fuel Grade (regular, mid-range or premium)

[socker77]

I say nothing but the best for my baby!

 

[cap'n]

Should be interesting to see, especially since you have a commute that allows you to do an equal comparison.

Ok, I was wrong about what I'm really getting right now on low grade. I filled up (with premium) after I left work, then did the math quickly on the phone calculator, and I've been getting exactly 45.6mpg week in and week out.

And on a side note, please don't take this the wrong way but

Might not want to compare our bike... I was giving my numbers as example. I have a FZ6R with a Marthy 6R Viper can + PCV. But I'm very consistent in my fuel number also. It was a back to back comparison between both fuel grade.

...damn. You're down 20hp AND down on mpg's versus a bone stock FZ6 with givi hard bags all over it, much less a modded one with no bags.

 

[Marthy]

Ok, I was wrong about what I'm really getting right now on low grade. I filled up (with premium) after I left work, then did the math quickly on the phone calculator, and I've been getting exactly 45.6mpg week in and week out.

And on a side note, please don't take this the wrong way but



...damn. You're down 20hp AND down on mpg's versus a bone stock FZ6 with givi hard bags all over it, much less a modded one with no bags.

I know...I know... I don't have Givi bags, just soft saddlebags. To be honest with you I was aiming to get the FZ6 but the dealer didn't have any on the floor... so the 6R was my second choice. I haven't rode for a solid 15 years before I got my ride last summer. I wanted something not to kill myself to get back on the saddle. I miss those 20 ponies now... The exhaust and PCV got some life out of the bike, kind of more exciting to drive around but it's not 20 HP...

Well, my wife just quit her job to go to school full time now... might have to wait for an upgrate... Still a very nice all around confy ride...

 

[cap'n]

I know...I know... I don't have Givi bags, just soft saddlebags. To be honest with you I was aiming to get the FZ6 but the dealer didn't have any on the floor... so the 6R was my second choice. I haven't rode for a solid 15 years before I got my ride last summer. I wanted something not to kill myself to get back on the saddle. I miss those 20 ponies now... The exhaust and PCV got some life out of the bike, kind of more exciting to drive around but it's not 20 HP...

Well, my wife just quit her job to go to school full time now... might have to wait for an upgrate... Still a very nice all around confy ride...

Totally understand. I think you chose wisely, given the circumstances. I just kinda ssumed the mpg's would be better than ours, given the changes to the engine. Sounds like you're getting nicely re-trained and ready to ride.

 

[Marthy]

Totally understand. I think you chose wisely, given the circumstances. I just kinda ssumed the mpg's would be better than ours, given the changes to the engine. Sounds like you're getting nicely re-trained and ready to ride.

I was getting 48-50 stock... not a big difference. I'm using two different maps that I can switck back and forth on the fly. One is "Sport" the other one is "Touring" The sport map has been tried by few guys on the 6R forum, and by far the best. But 36 to 38 MPG. The other one I get 46 out of it...

Not sure how familliar you are with PCV. There a Acceleration Pump feature in there...:rockon: That fix few under power issues! The bike is sounderpower that you can crank the setting without problem. I won't try those setting on a R1!!!

Thanks!

Checkout my site (marthymotorcycleexhaustsolution.com) I made few exhaust so far... got 8 out of 10 Touring windscreen sold.

 

[UHcougarJohn]

I've used them all and can't tell a difference.

 

[pulverizer]

Ok, I was wrong about what I'm really getting right now on low grade. I filled up (with premium) after I left work, then did the math quickly on the phone calculator, and I've been getting exactly 45.6mpg week in and week out.

Sounds about the same as me. I have a 60 mile RT commute (~40 HWY/20City), and I have been getting about 45 MPG on regular. I also did the same previously with premium, so I didn't really notice any statistically different MPG.

 

[cap'n]

Sounds about the same as me. I have a 60 mile RT commute (~40 HWY/20City), and I have been getting about 45 MPG on regular. I also did the same previously with premium, so I didn't really notice any statistically different MPG.

Well, the first tank of premium is done. And when I did the math at the pump, you'll never guess what my mpg was... 45.4

In other words, octane does not appear to make any difference on a stock FZ6. I have never experienced any knocking or pinging, nor should I... the engine compression isn't high enough, and the manual doesn't call for high octane gas. There are no magical additives that make 93 octane gas "better" for your baby. It just. costs. more.

For the sake of thoroughness, when I filled up just now I went with not just 93 but the special "93 PLUS" version Shell sells, in case someone might say the last tank was "polluted" with 89 octane still. But yeah. There is no mpg gain, power gain, or engine longevity gain. You just pay 30 cents too much for every gallon.

 

[ohgood]

Well, the first tank of premium is done. And when I did the math at the pump, you'll never guess what my mpg was... 45.4

In other words, octane does not appear to make any difference on a stock FZ6. I have never experienced any knocking or pinging, nor should I... the engine compression isn't high enough, and the manual doesn't call for high octane gas. There are no magical additives that make 93 octane gas "better" for your baby. It just. costs. more.

For the sake of thoroughness, when I filled up just now I went with not just 93 but the special "93 PLUS" version Shell sells, in case someone might say the last tank was "polluted" with 89 octane still. But yeah. There is no mpg gain, power gain, or engine longevity gain. You just pay 30 cents too much for every gallon.

+1

i wonder how much of big oil's profits comes directly from the marketing that 89 octane is 'inferior' to 93/95... they're laughing all the way to the bank-on-a-foreign-island-so-they-don't-have-to-pay-taxs-either.

 

[joe1971]

Last time I filled up I went to a completely different gas station (conoco), I got gas there in my truck and it seemed to run better. Haven't had an opportunity to check the mileage on either yet, but both seem to run a lot smoother. Normally on the FZ the first bar goes away at about 35-40mi on the tank, this time it's almost 50mi on the tank before the first bar went away, so I'm hopin.

 

[iSteve]

+1

i wonder how much of big oil's profits comes directly from the marketing that 89 octane is 'inferior' to 93/95... they're laughing all the way to the bank-on-a-foreign-island-so-they-don't-have-to-pay-taxs-either.

There really is a need for higher octane fuel. Just because the FZ6 will run on cheaper fuel doesn't mean high performance car and bike engines will be happy with it.

 

[ohgood]

There really is a need for higher octane fuel. Just because the FZ6 will run on cheaper fuel doesn't mean high performance car and bike engines will be happy with it.

there aren't many that can't compensate on the fly. don't think I would purchase something that can't. sure, a bugatti with 4 turbos.... but I'm never going to own one in this lifetime.

 

[Randomchaos]

there aren't many that can't compensate on the fly. don't think I would purchase something that can't. sure, a bugatti with 4 turbos.... but I'm never going to own one in this lifetime.

H-Ds have to run on premium. They like to ping otherwise on hot days.

 

[iSteve]

Also older cars, many turbo or supercharged cars, many large trucks, street tuners, and track cars and bikes.We also have many dirt bikes, boats, snowmobiles, carts.

I know almost anything new will compensate because of FI, knock sensors, computer ignition and variable timing. But the compensation also means less performance.

 

[DownrangeFuture]

The manual says "Regular unleaded" but it also says a minimum of 95RON which is regular (from what I understand) in most of the world. In the US we use the AKI (anti-knock index). After the conversion, that means we have to run a minimum of 91 octane (90.8 roughly without ethanol and 91.4 with) as measured at the pump. Common is 89 for mid, and 93 for premium in the US.

Therefore, the manual says to use premium.

I'm just sayin'. But in the end, if your engine doesn't b**** about regular, then use it. Mine does, so I use premium. The oil companies say to use whatever grade doesn't make your engine knock. The auto/motorcycle manufacturers say to use a grade that's going to ensure that none of their engines knock, even the weird outliers. So if yours does fine at regular, enjoy the 20-30 cents a gallon savings. After two tanks of regular, my engine basically says :Flip: until I put premium back in it.

But even if you need premium to keep from knocking, you can usually alternate tanks between regular and premium and be fine.

 

[iSteve]

Read it again it says 86 (R+M)/2 and 91 RON.

 

[GTPAddict]

I run premium. I have a modified 1998 Grand Prix GTP that requires premium, so there's nothing new for me here. I also think that a 12.5:1 compression engine deserves premium. Not knowing much about the design of the engine, I understand this may be all in my head so I can't really take sides on the who's right debate.

That being said, iSteve is right about the owners manual, here's a direct quote...

Your Yamaha engine has been designed to use regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number [(R+M)/2] of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher. If knocking (or pinging) occurs, use a gasoline of a different brand or premium unleaded fuel. Use of unleaded fuel will extend spark plug life and reduce maintenance costs.

 

[iSteve]

GTPAddict, I also use premium it's 23 cents more then regular at my local station, no reason to get worked up about. I do use the cheap stuff in my Ranger and Miata but the FZ6 gets the extra 23 cents a gallon stuff even if it just makes me feel better. It's kind of like the my oil is better then your oil debate.

 

[ludaChris]

I switched to premium 2 years ago and felt a huge difference in engine smoothness in the infamous FZ6 "buzz range" between 6K and 7K rpms. My mechanical engineering mind tells me that this is likely due to the fact that higher octane is less volatile and probably ignites just a few milliseconds later than 87 octane resulting in a smoother power band...even if I'm loosing 0.5 hp.

My father is a chemical engineer for a major oil company and there is more to "Premium fuel" than the octane rating. Premium fuel's from Shell, Exxon and BP have the maximum additive package which includes detergents that keep your engine and fuel system clean...it's not just hype...Premium has significantly more cleaning agents.

Also the higher the fuel price, the better value premium become since it's always only about 25 cents/gallon higher than regular...that's only $1 per tank in the FZ6...I'm getting 55mpg commuting...I think I can afford an extra $1 per week to have a smoother, cleaner running FZ6.

Keep in mind, however, that additives and detergents don't burn, and you're losing power with the more additives that occupy the volume that would otherwise be gasoline.

Higher octane means it is "harder" for it to combust. You have to put more energy into it to get it to burn, but that also means it can take more energy (pressure) before it combusts. This is why high pressure engines (high performance, high compression ratio, turbos, etc) use Premium. If the engine is not tuned for higher compression ratio, or higher pressure, Premium gives no advantage.

It is not "refined more" or "higher quality" than regular gasoline, just has more octane (which is often added artificially through additives or Ethanol) and possibly other additives (which do not burn, and actually reduce your power and efficiency).

 

[FIZZER6]

The manual says "Regular unleaded" but it also says a minimum of 95RON which is regular (from what I understand) in most of the world. In the US we use the AKI (anti-knock index). After the conversion, that means we have to run a minimum of 91 octane (90.8 roughly without ethanol and 91.4 with) as measured at the pump. Common is 89 for mid, and 93 for premium in the US.

Therefore, the manual says to use premium.

I'm just sayin'. But in the end, if your engine doesn't b**** about regular, then use it. Mine does, so I use premium. The oil companies say to use whatever grade doesn't make your engine knock. The auto/motorcycle manufacturers say to use a grade that's going to ensure that none of their engines knock, even the weird outliers. So if yours does fine at regular, enjoy the 20-30 cents a gallon savings. After two tanks of regular, my engine basically says :Flip: until I put premium back in it.

But even if you need premium to keep from knocking, you can usually alternate tanks between regular and premium and be fine.

Good post but I wanted to comment on that last part in BOLD.

Alternating tanks of fuel from regular to premium is a terrible practice.

Why? Your ECU has to "re-learn" to run the engine smoothly every time you switch grades of fuel...by switching back and forth if barely gets a chance to learn the new fuel curves before it's fed something different....this will likely result in poor fuel economy and decreased performance.

It only takes about 4.0 - 4.5 gallons of fuel to fill the FZ6...Even at today's prices in the US that's only $16 - $19 to fill the tank with PREMIUM. If you used Regular you would save about $1 per tank. Is $1 per tank really worth a decrease in performance and clean burning on a machine that is already saving you $20 - $200 a week in fuel savings?