My local walmart is having a sale on Mobile Full Synthetic Oil...but which one should I get. I am in Los Angles......
The proper Mobil 1 oil for OUR motorcycles is:
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40
This oil has a JASO-MA certification, which means that it is certified for wet-clutch systems.
Standard full synthetic automotive oils have an energy-conserving additive package that will cause a wet clutch to slip.
Shell Rotella Full Synthetic has a JASO-MA certification, and thus, many people on this forum use it in their bikes.
I'm a fan of the Mobil1 4T 10W-40 because of it's viscosity and availability at most auto parts stores.
The only thing I will add to this thread is that the Owner's manual does not state that it's acceptable to run motor oil with a base stock thinner than 10W. As a result, I will not run 0w or 5w base stock oil in any machine not rated for that.
The only thing I will add to this thread is that the Owner's manual does not state that it's acceptable to run motor oil with a base stock thinner than 10W. As a result, I will not run 0w or 5w base stock oil in any machine not rated for that. I would run 15w oils, but I'd take it easy, until the motor reached operating temperature.
My personal opinion is that the protection offered by the 'hot' rating viscosity is not identical, if you are comparing 5w-30 to 10w-30. I don't see how a 0w-30 rated oil could compare, either.
As almost all engine damage occurs in the first 30 seconds of operation, before the oil pump can supply oil to the top end of the motor.... seems to me that the base stock rating is more important, than the hot temp rating.
The first number in oil weights is just a correlation to a specific weight at a given temperature. It has nothing to do with protection at higher temperatures. A 0w-30 is the same weight as a 10w-30 at 100C. If there was any difference in kinematic viscosities they both could not be labled a 30 weight oil. The API has specific ranges of viscosities for a given grade. A xw-30 oil has to be between 9.30-12.49 cSt at 100C.
*snip*
Agreed - this is the same reason I DO NOT use full synthetic Rotella. The owners manual reccomends a base viscosity of 10W to 20W and a hot viscosity of 30 to 50. 10W-40 seems like the happy medium to me...
Again I got to go to the car engine to give honest examples. GTO club (newer 04-06') I've been associated with for years have many people that send their oil out for analysis every oil change. One of the favorite oils of the group, and the oil I use when I can get it, is Mobile 1 0w-40. this is because it is the closest to a true 30w oil at operating temperature that we, as a group, could find yet the 0w rating give it as quick a take-up / start up cycle as you can get.
The proper Mobil 1 oil for OUR motorcycles is:
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40
This oil has a JASO-MA certification, which means that it is certified for wet-clutch systems.
Standard full synthetic automotive oils have an energy-conserving additive package that will cause a wet clutch to slip.
Shell Rotella Full Synthetic has a JASO-MA certification, and thus, many people on this forum use it in their bikes.
I'm a fan of the Mobil1 4T 10W-40 because of it's viscosity and availability at most auto parts stores.
The first number in oil weights is just a correlation to a specific weight at a given temperature. It has nothing to do with protection at higher temperatures. A 0w-30 is the same weight as a 10w-30 at 100C. If there was any difference in kinematic viscosities they both could not be labled a 30 weight oil. The API has specific ranges of viscosities for a given grade. A xw-30 oil has to be between 9.30-12.49 cSt at 100C.
The 0w oil just flows better when cold, hence providing quicker flow to engine parts after start up. The reason Yamaha does not recommend 0w-xx oils is that they allow use of conventional (non synthetic oils). Conventional oils are not very shear stable when you get larger viscosity spreads, hence the use of viscosity improvers. So in order to keep the oil from shearing out of grade, Yamaha recommends thicker oils. Now synthetics are much more shear stable. So a 5w-40 syn will stay in grade much longer than a conventional oil. Motorcycle gear boxes are very hard on engine oil, and easily destroy viscosity improvers in motor oils.
In modern plain bearing engines, the oil pump provides the oil to the bearings. So in essence, your bearings are spinning in a film of oil, provided by the oil pump. If you reduce that flow too much, now you are running on a boundary layer of lubrication, as oil can not move thorough the passages fast enough (even though pressure may be fine). In this sate of boundary lubrication is where the anti wear additives in the oil stop metal on metal contact. So in this instance, you can go thicker and actually cause engine damage. If you went with a thinner oil (say 5w-20) you drop in pressure but have more oil flowing through the passages, providing oil on oil lubrication. So thicker is not always better!
So, when looking at oil grades, buy the oil that fits your riding conditions. Since most ride during the warmer months, most 10w-xx and 15w-xx oil will perform just fine. If you are riding in 30-40F weather, a 5w-xx oil may suit your conditions better. And of course, always buy oil that is compatible with a wet clutch (for motorcycle use).
Some of your above posts is based on common misconceptions of the grade system of motor oil weights. You should not think of the oil thinning at temp but basically thickening as it cools. Lets use conventional 5w-30 as an example; The base oil is set to be a 30 weight (or grade) oil, and viscosity improvers are added to help it from thickening as it cools. These viscosity improvers have longer carbon chains, so they resist thickening, but they can still clump together when temperatures get really cold. That and the ratings used for cold and hot temps is on a different scale. So a 5w-30 conventional is actually a 68w-30. Hence why there is so much confusion about oils.What the hey, it's now officially an oil thread. Feel free to disagree, I am now out of this conversation.
The first number in the multi grade rating is the cold temp number (and the actual base stock oil weight).... the second number equates to how it acts, at 100C. How does it get there? By the use of additives. If you start with 5 weight oil, and want it to act like 30 weight at temp..... you have to add stuff to increase the viscosity at temp.
A 10 weight base stock oil has half as much of that extra 'stuff' to get it to act like your chosen relative weight at temp. The stuff is long chain polymers, as I understand it. They essentially start out balled up, and unravel with temp. When the long chains are fully extended, they slow the movement of the liquid they are in. Hence, the impression that there is equivalent viscosity.
I have yet to find anyone who can tell me how thick the oil film formed by 0, 5, 10, or 20 weight oil is, at specific temp and pressure.... and how that compares to each with enough additive to get it to act like, say 40 weight at 100C. I've asked this of SAE engineers. They don't like to answer this one.
The thinner the oil, the less the pumping resistance.... and a minor increase in HP. The thinner the oil, the thinner the film between rotating parts, and bearing surfaces. You feel confident using thinner oil than Yamaha recommends? Bully for you.
Every time someone brings up "I know lots of people who do routine oil analysis".... I find very little actual evidence to support the claim. I've gone so far as to contact a couple of analysis labs, and asked them to pull every sample they've taken from FZ6 motorcycles specifically, and gotten no more than 3 random samples. Hardly statistically relevant. Especially when the samples come from different bikes.
Viscosity tests are insanely simple affairs. Look up what the standard tests consist of. A uniform size sample, and a known diameter tube, at a specific temperature. A stop watch to see how long it takes to run a given length. There's minor variation in the specifics between the 3 I've read up on -- but that is in essence the whole shooting match.
Lab tests for chemical content and spectro analysis of the samples? In parts per million (1% of 1%)? How much variation do you think there is at the refinery? People read far, far too much into these things.
The bottom line is you can spend just as much bench racing oil as any other subject...... with very little value added. Stick with the specs the owner's manual calls out, and you have every bit of protection the warranty calls for.
Change it at the 'long' interval, unless you really do live in a super hot, dusty climate and never warm the motor all the way up.
Your mileage of course, will drastically vary.....
Wolfc, now don't start clouding the issue with facts. ;-) Great info.