How many rotations is normal on rear wheel?

[TKo1]

Hi all!

Trying to figure out a potential problem on the rear of my 2007 FZ6 and was wondering how many rotations you get on the rear wheel when spinning it with your hand while on the center stand?

I think I have a sticking caliper because my rear rotor gets hot with minimal use so I bought new seals. I was planning on changing the seals (still plan to) and spun the wheel with the caliper mounted and compared it with the caliper dismounted from the bike and I get 3/4 of a turn. This leads me to believe the caliper might be fine and maybe it's just drag from the chain. I searched through the boards and they mention the same things but no specific number of rotations for the rear wheel. I'm assuming the rotations will vary but 3/4 of a turn seems very little.

If you can check and let me know how many rotations you get, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi all!

Trying to figure out a potential problem on the rear of my 2007 FZ6 and was wondering how many rotations you get on the rear wheel when spinning it with your hand while on the center stand?

I think I have a sticking caliper because my rear rotor gets hot with minimal use so I bought new seals. I was planning on changing the seals (still plan to) and spun the wheel with the caliper mounted and compared it with the caliper dismounted from the bike and I get 3/4 of a turn. This leads me to believe the caliper might be fine and maybe it's just drag from the chain. I searched through the boards and they mention the same things but no specific number of rotations for the rear wheel. I'm assuming the rotations will vary but 3/4 of a turn seems very little.

If you can check and let me know how many rotations you get, I'd appreciate it.

I just checked mine (chain lubed yesterday) and get between 1 to 1.25 rotations with the chain on.


As you noted the chain makes a bunch of drag.

You can pull the chain off the rear sprocket, set off to the side (ON the swing arm) and tighten the axle and try again.

The rear caliper has WAY less issues than the fronts...

If you simply go for a 10 minute ride, stop quickly with the fronts ONLY and the FEEL the rear caliper, it should be just cool. If its hot, its dragging too much.

**Something often neglected are the two pins that the rear caliper floats on. The grease gets old, gums up and doesn't allow the caliper to center itself, thus brake pad drag...

Get some brake specific grease(made for brakes, doesn't break down with heat,etc).

Pull the two bolts, clean them up and clean out the rubber boots and all sliding parts and re-grease.

While that's off, I'd pull the caliper, pump the piston out a hair and de-grease (BRAKE CLEANER) and a tooth brush.
Push the piston back in just enough, by hand or if real sticky (which would indicate the seals hardened up) a "C" clamp, C vise grip, etc.

 

[FinalImpact]

Oil type, wt, and engine temperature play a huge role as does how you spin it. Hand, foot, forward, backwards...

Pressure Bleeding the brakes annually is highly recommended as it gets the moisture and air out which helps retract the piston(s).

Do spin test on a cold engine vs warm engine, huge change in revs...

 

[dbldutch02]

Oil type, wt, and engine temperature play a huge role...

Couldn't agree more, plus the chain (and it's lube) warm up and run better

 

[TKo1]

Thanks for the responses.

I got around to changing the caliper seals...it seems I was having a seizing caliper issue as my pads looked cooked with small chunks missing and the pad shims were warped with some "blue-ing" heat spots. I still get the same number of rotations though so it's probably the hot vs. cold along with chain drag. I've yet to take the bike out to see if the rotor still gets hot but that's what I'll check next.

I've got another issue related to the rear caliper I was looking for input on. After I got done with remounting/bleeding the caliper, I rolled the bike forward and applied to rear brake and heard a clunk/click. Rolled it back and same thing while applying the brake. After closer inspection, it seems there is some slop around the rear (12mm) mounting bolt. If I grab the caliper and try to rotate it up or down around the front (14mm) mounting bolt, the caliper rotates slighting and I hear the same noise. I'm guessing it's the caliper mounting hole/sleeve hitting the bolt. I don't recall it doing this before. Is this normal? I attached a pic in case my description was hard to follow.


When I had the caliper off, I took the sleeve in that mounting hole out and hosed it along with the boot with brake cleaner. I relubed after with caliper grease. Would this have anything to do with what I'm experiencing? Or is it completely normal?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

There shouldn't be any back and forth play...

Can I assume there isn't any play in that bushing and it slides easily back and forth after being greased with BRAKE SPECIFIC grease?

Here's the parts fisch, you may want to double check and make sure EVERYTHING is installed:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W REAR BRAKE CALIPER Diagram


Probably NOT an issue but there are anti-rattle springs, ie, one above part #10 (NO part #) in the parts fisch. Make sure that's installed and correctly-especially part #7



PM sent...

 

[FinalImpact]

There shouldn't be any back and forth play...

Can I assume there isn't any play in that bushing and it slides easily back and forth after being greased with BRAKE SPECIFIC grease?

Here's the parts fisch, you may want to double check and make sure EVERYTHING is installed:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W REAR BRAKE CALIPER Diagram


Probably NOT an issue but there are anti-rattle springs, ie, one above part #10 (NO part #) in the parts fisch. Make sure that's installed and correctly-especially part #7



PM sent...

Look on the swing arm - Notice the Grove above slides into the tongue protruding from the inside of the swing arm... This keeps the caliper from rotating.
Pull the axle, pull the wheel back and seat this caliper bracket into the tongue.

 

[TKo1]

The caliper mounting bracket groove is in the swing arm tongue. It seems to just be rotating around the 12mm caliper mounting bolt (sort of like if you were just replacing pads, removing the 12mm bolt and swinging the caliper up). With the 12mm in place (and everything else), there seems to be play around the 12mm making contact with the bolt, bushing, and/or caliper.

Can you even install the rear wheel without the groove and tongue aligned? I'd think if it wasn't aligned and tried to get the rear wheel back on, it wouldn't fit or it would all fit together but the caliper position would be way off.

Either way, I didn't remove the wheel for the rear caliper but I did have the wheel off a couple of months ago replacing the tire...didn't happen to notice anything different until the caliper work but I'll double check just in case.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Can you even install the rear wheel without the groove and tongue aligned? I'd think if it wasn't aligned and tried to get the rear wheel back on, it wouldn't fit or it would all fit together but the caliper position would be way off. .

Yes you can BUT, you'll bend the snot out the main bracket (part #10) and it has happened before ruining it. Applying 87 ft lbs to that bracket(axle) will indeed bend it.

 

[FinalImpact]

+1 - And YES and some have been successful and it does bind and cause issues.

Sorry, I'm not following you regarding the 12mm of play if lifted up while bolted together.
It has pivot anchor and cinch bolt which slides. Pull the boots off and make sure the bushing isn't knocked out of the housing. And Yes, I am assuming it has a bushing. Maybe it does not?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1 - And YES and some have been successful and it does bind and cause issues.

Sorry, I'm not following you regarding the 12mm of play if lifted up while bolted together.
It has pivot anchor and cinch bolt which slides. Pull the boots off and make sure the bushing isn't knocked out of the housing. And Yes, I am assuming it has a bushing. Maybe it does not?

My impression is the rear of the caliper moves up and down that 12mm's at the rear mounting point.

I mentioned that part, #7, in post #6 ( Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W REAR BRAKE CALIPER Diagram ) which would be the most likely thing it could be (as in missing)...

BTW, look at the disc itself. I think that's heat discoloration (closer to the inside of the pad contact area) and some pretty good scoring too...

 

[FinalImpact]

Yes you can BUT, you'll bend the snot out the main bracket (part #10) and it has happened before ruining it. Applying 87 ft lbs to that bracket(axle) will indeed bend it.

I'm guessing the rotor may not do well either....
Yes, it looks like OPs rotor is scored and has been pretty hot!

From the tech section, this forum...

 

[TKo1]

TownsendsFJR1300 is describing what's happening...at least from what I can tell. It's not much play like it's flopping around but it's enough that if I roll the bike and apply the rear brake, I hear a clunk. That's what led me to go shaking on the caliper and I narrowed it down to an issue around the 12mm bolt. That bushing/sleeve (item 7) is in place and is lubed with caliper grease. I made sure the boot "lips" on either end fit in the recesses of the bushing/sleeve properly. I'm just going to replace the boot, sleeve and bolt as they aren't expensive. I can't see much else there to go wrong.

And yes that is discoloration of the disk...it did got pretty hot. The brake pad shims had heat marks/discoloration on them and were warped. Pad material was cooked and little chunks came off. I'll be replacing all that stuff...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I was going to mention to remove the front bolt and see how the rear, suspect bolt's sleeve behaves.

Is there any play to speak of between the caliper and the rear sleeve?
I'm just trying to confirm the aluminum caliber hole didn't wallow out somehow(I wouldn't think likely.

Replacing all the parts mentioned above should solve your issue. Just make sure the new sleeve fits with very little if any play.

I don't see how the caliper would be affected with heat, especially way out by the mounting holes.
.
.
You do have all the anti-rattle shims (especially the one not numbered over the main bracket) installed correctly? Those shouldn't
affect the rear main mount bolt but just trying to cover all bases.
.

**Just curious, did you find anything unusual in the caliper, froze piston, any pitting, etc?** Just a very sticky/melted seal?

Please post back after your done.

 

[TKo1]

Hello again...just wanted to reply with an update...
Not much of an update...I can't figure it out and give up.

Showed a friend my issue (he's somewhat mechanically inclined) and he said the clunk doesn't sound normal but maybe the aftermarket pads I put in (EBC) were loose in the caliper. While the pads did seems a little loose, I removed the pads completely, remounted the caliper and it still makes noise so that eliminates the pad theory. All shims are in. Can't see anything else that would cause it especially at the rear bolt considering that the rubber boot should cushion the metal bushing/sleeve to the caliper body leaving the only location for the noise I'm hearing between the metal bushing/sleeve and the caliper mounting bolt.

I brought it to the dealer this week to get my inspection sticker and asked the guy there for some input. The guy said it's normal but with a dismissive attitude like I was wasting his time. Whatever.

Everything seems to be operating normal with exception of the sound. I'll just monitor it and if I find anything, I'll report back.

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

What happens if you leave the caliper off altogether (main aluminum mounting bracket still installed and axle tightened)?

Did you inspect, with the boots off, how much play is in between the caliper and spacers? There shouldn't be any to speak of, and greased up, slide easily, NOT sloppy in and out..

Now if that hardware was run dry for awhile, (not serviced, greased occasionally) it could have wallowed out the caliper hole itself. Can you put the bike on the center stand, apply the rear brake tight, then manually move the rear wheel back and forth WHILE HOLDING/WATCHING the caliper for movement and feeling for ANY PLAY. I'd put money your going to feel just a tad. The bolts/bushings are steel and will wallow out the aluminum caliber, again, if not serviced, over time..

The boots don't cushion that area, just protect (from road grime) and hold in brake grease.

 

[crazydmc]

other than a stuck caliper, could it be that your foot is riding on the rear brake lever without you knowing it??? Adjust the lever lower if this could be the case.