Bruce McCrary
RDY2GO!
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2007
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 0
- Location
- Cotton Grove, NC
You strike me as a rather bitter person which is sad.
Oh well. Maybe it's they way your reading my posts. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm not American so your state/post code doesn't mean anything to me. It could mean anything quite literally. Different areas have very different perspectives, communities and attitudes, something you might have been able to read into my comment if you took a deep breath before jumping down my throat.
What you originally said was "I have no idea where your from..." after reading where I specifically mentioned the AMA & MIC which are decidedly very American organizations, then mentioned in the very next sentence that what I referring to was targeted towards companies selling to the US markets. I didn't jump down your throat, I pointed out what I thought was extremely obvious.
But don't worry I'll write down those details and make a post it note for "bitter and rude people come from here" shall I?
Hey, what ever makes your boat float Skippy. You seem to be wanting to jump to you own conclusions based on what you perceive and not reality anyway. Go for it. No skin off my teeth.
Everyone isn't going to agree with your opinion, if you can't deal with it a forums a bad place to be visiting.
The thing is I wasn't projecting my opinions. I was simply stating what has become fact. The AMA & MIC have suggested a 96 db sound limit. The aftermarket companies are listening and agreeing. There are towns and communities in the US that have put laws into effect that deal with noise and exhaust systems on motorcycles as a direct result of what they felt was excessive noise. There are US federal mandates being considered that would restrict the use of any exhaust system that doesn't comply with federal emission and noise levels. Let me state once again for clarity. THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS. THESE ARE FACTS. It's happening as we speak and there is no good indication that it will go away or lessen in severity.
The general community also isn't normally the 'group' who causes these legislations to be put into place. You come from a country where something like 30% of the population vote to elect one of the most powerful leaders in the world and your trying to tell me that the majority of people DID get up in arms about the sound of a motorcycle exhaust?
Nupe. Once again your reading what you want and not what I wrote. I never said a majority. I made a general reference to "John Q. Public" which was merely used as an anonymous namesake for the non-riding public.
Small minority groups of very loud, sometimes influential, and generally very political people are the ones who get these laws passed. Mainly because most of the people who would stand against the overreactions we see are pretty laid back and often don't realise what they stand to lose until legislation has been passed. Many people just can't be bothered or just don't know what is going on. It changes and they adapt.
Couldn't agree with you more! While it isn't factually so, it seems that many of the bills and ultimately laws that are written in reference to the motorcycle or powersports community are done under cover of the night. There's nothing on the radar screen at one moment and all of a sudden a slimy, poorly written and ill conceived piece of legislation is suddenly before the house or senate for signature. The NC ATV bill/law was like that. We had no real clue it was coming, then when it did the biggest piece of legislative crap I have ever read is put on the fast track through both houses and on the governors desk. It was amazing. I got wind of it just days before the final hearing and took a day off work to go to Raleigh and see what was going on and came back in utter disbelief that a law that leaves so much up to interpretation by LEO's and so full of bull**** loopholes could actually be passed as law. Yet here it is.
Its funny that guns kill people, and are used in so much crime in the USA, but that 'right' can't be taken away but a loud exhaust which realistically doesn't harm (but maybe annoy) anyone is. The main difference is if they tried to take away guns.... well the idea is laughable. If they got the same response at the suggestion to take away loud exhausts they wouldn't try that either.
Why is it that folks outside the US just love to bring up our 2nd amendment rights so much?
I'm glad you brought it up though, lets run with it a bit. One reason why the gun lobby is so strong is because of the sheer size of it. Their numbers dwarf those of the American motorcycle rider. But that isn't the thing really. With those numbers naturally come more people that are willing to stand up and do the right thing, more that see the big picture and understand that things worth keeping aren't just handed to us. "We" need more of that mentality. Now consider this; Have you ever heard or read of a Colt owner bad mouthing the owner of a Winchester? Do you hear pistol owners calling shotgun owners 'Tools'? Do you honestly think for even a moment that if by some far out unfathomable chance that John Q Public started complaining about excessive noise from firearms that the fans of small caliber short barreled weapons would start pointing fingers at the owners of large caliber long barreled ones claiming that the noise from those weapons is more offensive and that they are the real problem?
Not in a million years.
They understand that they are one group and that there is strength in those numbers. Can "We" say that? All you've got to do is read some of the posts on this forum, heck in this very thread to understand that "We" don't get it, and because of that, heck, DUE to that, "We" are easy prey to those that would like to see "us" simply go away, or least be legislated into a place where it doesn't matter any more.
Its political really, politicians love to be looking like they are doing something 'good' for the community, when people actually stand up and say 'no we won't accept this' often the latest grand standing ends up failing.
Yeah, exactly. Myrtle Beach is prime example of that. A small but boisterous and influential part of the population got the local politicians ears (and into their pocketbooks)(no I don't know that for a fact, but it ain't hard to figure) and a 20 year plus tradition is gone. There are many lessons to be learned from that deal and it will go down in "our" history as THE place where "we" really dropped the ball.
I don't really see the point you are argueing...
Again, I'm not arguing anything. Simply pointing out facts.
...we all agree that some pipes are too loud, in fact even amongst stock pipes there is a huge variance in the sound produced.
But you and others are simply missing the point. That doesn't matter. When law makers write legislation the verbiage will not be "V-Twin", "Cruiser", "In-line four" or "sportbike", it will be, and has been, "Motorcycle". Up until the AMA and MIC decided to step up to the plate "we" couldn't even say with any definition or clarity what "too loud" was. Now "we" can, for the immediate future it is 96 decibels. Unless of course a local, state or federal government decides otherwise. No one who is charged with measuring that number will give a tinkers damn about any variance in sound or the Doppler effect or anything else. They will simply be reading a decibel meter and it will either be above or below 96 (or whatever) db, and whatever side of the line the exhaust being checked falls will determine if it is legal.
It's really that simple.
If every single motorcyclist decided to stick with the stock exhaust I very much doubt the groups who want to see motorcycles gone would suddenly change subjects, they would chose something else to pick at or just change what they see as acceptable.
Agreed. Honestly the noise issue is but one issue facing "us" and not really the most important IMHO. Just the one that members of this forum seem to enjoy bringing up the most. Land use issues are still my biggest target and the one that concerns me personally the most. Just before Bill Clinton left office he signed a couple of bills into effect that could have been the end of off road riding on public lands in this country. Called the "Wilderness Act" and the "Road-less Initiative" they would have been the single biggest land grab since the Louisiana Purchase and would have not only prohibited off road vehicular use on most public lands, it would have displaced people from their homes and lands and even done stupid things like making parts of the Blue Ridge Parkway open only to foot traffic. Fortunately the Bush administration nixed that one within the first week of taking office and then completely took it off the table. But with the Dem's back in the drivers seat it is rearing it's ugly head again.
But I digress...
Something as simple as riding in low revs while in suburban areas can be the difference between a stock exhaust sounding fine and being too loud, and its still reliant on the hearer's opinion. To some it doesn't matter the actual volume all that matters is that its a bike.
Pretty much.
So we have the choice of either all going for super quiet exhausts, or having a law enforced upon us that does it anyway, wow thats an awesome set of options.
Yep. That's where this is headed, and in some cases, already is.
Instead of having something taken from us lets just give it away! Then when the next thing they want to take from us comes up lets just bend over and take it :thumbup: yep thats definately a long term solution.
No! I've got a better idea! Lets all understand that above all "we" are all riders and enthusiasts. Lets all look out for each other instead of pointing fingers in one direction or another. Lets all understand that "we" have to co-exist with those that don't ride and that their opinions matter just as much as "ours" do and find some middle ground. Lets all understand that it will be a give and take situation and that the long term goal is to RIDE and enjoy it. Lets all get together and be heard instead of being the herd.
Probably the biggest step we could take to help the motorcycle image is just remove all those HD riders and their bikes (and similar), they are obnoxious and loud and scary looking. Never mind alot of them are really nice normal people!
*thud, thud, thud* (That's me beating my head on the desk...)
I'm not going to continue argueing with you becaues your stance seems to be "(a)self regulate ourselves into oblivion, or (b)face off with the people who don't like us and lose" I'll take option (c) - fight for a bit of freedom.
GREAT! So I can count on you to do like I have been for the last 10 plus years and you'll be calling and writing letters to your congressmen and senators, going to public meetings to make sure that "our" side is heard? Oh. Wait. You can only do part of that... The question is, will you?
If I lose at least I know what I stood for, and can have a bit of pride. That way the next generation, when they face the next challenge will have learnt something and hopefully have the rolemodels or older generations backup in standing up when its needed and making themselves heard.
Quit talking about it and do it big boy. Lip service don't count.
I am pretty idealistic, and it can get me into trouble at times since these days "doing the right thing ain't doing the right thing!" but I'm me, and just accepting all the limitations people would often like to see placed simply because its something they can't or won't do, or don't approve of would be effectively be putting a ban on being myself.
Wow. That's deep dude... Doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't walk the walk, but still, deep.
To put it simply:
Them : :spank:
Me: :Flip:
Everyone else: :ban:
That's the spirit. Kinda like the other statement made about not caring about what other people think of "us". It'll get "us" real far...
Bruce
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