Riding comfort on naked and Fazer FZ6

[dimos]

Hi everybody,
this is my first post so please forgive me for any possible mistakes in my posting behaviour.

Before opening this thread, I searched in the forum trying find the information I need, without any luck though.

A couple of days ago, I bought a used FZ6-N 2005 with some cosmetic imperfections, nevertheless it seemed ok. The problems which I have with the bike are two:

== A. Riding Position ==
The riding position is not very comfortable. I am 5' 9'' tall and weight 75kg. I can easily have my feet firmly on the ground. The problem is more with the handlebar position since I need to lean a lot. This riding position puts a lot of strain on my arms. I used to own a FZS600 Fazer, and never had such a problem. It also hearts a bit my genital area, and I think this happens because I move my body as front as possible to avoid leaning.
In the first place, I thought that the previous owner had modified the bike, and that he had adjusted things for his own body-type. However, after a short research I found that parts are genuine. You can have a look also in the attached photos your selves. Let me know if you notice something weird or non-stock.

View attachment 31911
View attachment 31912
View attachment 31913

Do you have any similar issues with the naked model? Is the riding position different from the Fazer's? Do you know if the naked model's steering crown or handlebar height is different from the Fazer's ?


== B. Stalling and weird behaviour when warmed up ==
The engine used to stall quite frequently, mainly when my bike was warmed up and when I pulled the clutch lever. I did the TPS check and the values I got were within the normal documented range in the manual.
After a better look, I noticed that the idle RPM tended to fall below 1000rpm when it was warmed up, so, I adjusted it to the factory specs (1250-1350rpm).
The idle adjustment fixed the stalling problem. However, adjusting the idle may not heal the actual cause of the problem, but it may only prevent it from happening.
After I made a longer ride and inside traffic, I noticed another problem which may (or may not) be irrelevant to the first one. When the bike is cold, the engine does not sound weird like loosing its pace. When the temperature goes higher (2-3 bars), the idle doesn't sound rhythmic and seems like loosing a bit the pace here and there. I do notice this abnormality every time the temperature reaches the 3 bars. Apart from the sound, it affects also the performance of the bike; the throttle looses its linearity and smoothness and when starting the bike from still, the engine seems to struggle a bit and it requires more throttle to start moving (compared to when the bike is colder).

I apologize if I overwhelmed you with so much information, I will anyway go to a Yamaha dealer next week, but I thought that someone could have similar experiences.

Thanks

 

[McLovin]

Welcome to the forums!

A. Your bike is stock.

I am about the same height and weight and I sit with my balls on the tank as well. Although I never felt like I was leaned forward too much. I think stock fz6 body position for someone our size is the most upright you will get from a sportbike. Try sitting on a R6 and that might give you a different perspective about your bike.

B. I had to adjust the idle as well. That fixes the low idle problem permanently, you just need to do it.

Regarding the other engine issues, I would say, adjust your throttle slack, adjust your clutch lever and try to get used to the power band on this bike. The power/torque you are used to might be very different than fz6's.

 

[MHS]

I agree with the above for A. I'm a little taller and well, a lot heavier. I lean a bit more forward than I'd prefer to, but I don't expect to sit much more upright on a sportbike.

I didn't have tank nuts so much until I put a new seat on, which forces me a little more forward. Didn't really have any affect on the weight on my wrists though.

For B, not mechanically inclined, so no comment.

 

[Juan1]

$250 (U.S. anyways) should solve your problems.

A. Get bar risers (1 inch up and 1 inch back from Gen Mar) or different handlebars to solve the problem. Bikemaster makes some good inexpensive bars.

B. Call some upholstery shops and see if they can reshape the seat to keep your junk off the tank.

 

[Erci]

a. I found stock handlebar to be the most uncomfortable of any 2-wheeled machine I'd ever been on. Many on this forum feel the same way. FZ1 bar is a popular and cheap swap and most (myself included) find it much more comfortable.

b. How many miles on the bike? Sounds to me like valves could use an adjustment.

 

[dimos]

The bike has 36000miles

I think that I am going to buy risers instead of new handlebar and lets hope that will improve the riding satisfaction levels and reduce the balls-squeezing levels

I will also have a look for FZ1 handlebar on ebay.

Regarding the engine, I will tr some Seafoam first and then if it doesn't solve the problem (which I don't really believe that is going to work..) I'll go for oil/oil filter replacement (anyway) and ask the engineer to check valves and I'll adjust the clutch.


Thanks to everyone for our useful replies.

 

[Erci]

The bike has 36000miles

I think that I am going to buy risers instead of new handlebar and lets hope that will improve the riding satisfaction levels and reduce the balls-squeezing levels

I will also have a look for FZ1 handlebar on ebay.

Regarding the engine, I will tr some Seafoam first and then if it doesn't solve the problem (which I don't really believe that is going to work..) I'll go for oil/oil filter replacement (anyway) and ask the engineer to check valves and I'll adjust the clutch.


Thanks to everyone for our useful replies.

36,000? If there is no service history and valves were never adjusted, I can pretty much bet that that is the issue. Tight exhaust valve = stalling when engine is hot.
Seafoam won't hurt though so go ahead and give it a try.
FZ1 bar can be had in the states for $28 (from several online shops). Don't know about UK pricing.

 

[dimos]

Thanks Erci for the suggestion,
today I popped in a local Official Yamaha service workshop and asked for a price, only for adjusting the valves and they asked for £220 (~ 350$ ) and then straight walked away because I thought the price was crazy...Anyway, will try again elsewhere.

In the meanwhile I bought a Renthal ultra straight bar for £25 (yes.. the ultra straight) and my plan is to buy the Rox FX 2'' risers. I did so because the Yamaha dealer asked for £90 (~143$) for the FZ1 handlebar... people are crazy here..

So, I plan to have a longer handlebar placed closer to my body with the risers.

Today the engine stalled again, repeatedly, and I felt that it would happen again because the engine did a lot of short hiccups (well maybe not hiccups exactl, but this sound that is like pulling a truck behind you, struggling...)

Cheers

 

[discgolfdude]

I have the 2" rox fx risers, and I wish I would have gotten the 3". You'll like them, as they are adjustable.

 

[Erci]

Mental price for FZ1 bar!!
As far as valve job.. sorry to say I think that price is not that outrageous. It's a laborious task.

 

[youngy]

Thanks Erci for the suggestion,
today I popped in a local Official Yamaha service workshop and asked for a price, only for adjusting the valves and they asked for £220 (~ 350$ ) and then straight walked away because I thought the price was crazy...Anyway, will try again elsewhere.

In the meanwhile I bought a Renthal ultra straight bar for £25 (yes.. the ultra straight) and my plan is to buy the Rox FX 2'' risers. I did so because the Yamaha dealer asked for £90 (~143$) for the FZ1 handlebar... people are crazy here..

So, I plan to have a longer handlebar placed closer to my body with the risers.

Today the engine stalled again, repeatedly, and I felt that it would happen again because the engine did a lot of short hiccups (well maybe not hiccups exactl, but this sound that is like pulling a truck behind you, struggling...)

Cheers

To adjust the valve clearances you have to remove the camshafts. £220 is not expensive - probably only 4 to 5 hours labour.

The longer you leave it, the worse it will get. You could end up with burnt valves needing replacing.

Your problem could also be a coil, plug lead or cap breaking down.

Does the bike start easily when hot, or does it take a few attempts to get it going?

When were the plugs last changed?

 

[fazil]

It seems like a TPS problem. Checking it with the clock diagnostic is not enough. Don't mind the values. They always seem right for the TPS.
2004 and 2005 models had this issue and they had a service call back for TPS change. You can check if it was changed or not.
They put a sign in the bike if they change it.

Hi everybody,
this is my first post so please forgive me for any possible mistakes in my posting behaviour.

Before opening this thread, I searched in the forum trying find the information I need, without any luck though.

A couple of days ago, I bought a used FZ6-N 2005 with some cosmetic imperfections, nevertheless it seemed ok. The problems which I have with the bike are two:

== A. Riding Position ==
The riding position is not very comfortable. I am 5' 9'' tall and weight 75kg. I can easily have my feet firmly on the ground. The problem is more with the handlebar position since I need to lean a lot. This riding position puts a lot of strain on my arms. I used to own a FZS600 Fazer, and never had such a problem. It also hearts a bit my genital area, and I think this happens because I move my body as front as possible to avoid leaning.
In the first place, I thought that the previous owner had modified the bike, and that he had adjusted things for his own body-type. However, after a short research I found that parts are genuine. You can have a look also in the attached photos your selves. Let me know if you notice something weird or non-stock.

View attachment 31911
View attachment 31912
View attachment 31913

Do you have any similar issues with the naked model? Is the riding position different from the Fazer's? Do you know if the naked model's steering crown or handlebar height is different from the Fazer's ?


== B. Stalling and weird behaviour when warmed up ==
The engine used to stall quite frequently, mainly when my bike was warmed up and when I pulled the clutch lever. I did the TPS check and the values I got were within the normal documented range in the manual.
After a better look, I noticed that the idle RPM tended to fall below 1000rpm when it was warmed up, so, I adjusted it to the factory specs (1250-1350rpm).
The idle adjustment fixed the stalling problem. However, adjusting the idle may not heal the actual cause of the problem, but it may only prevent it from happening.
After I made a longer ride and inside traffic, I noticed another problem which may (or may not) be irrelevant to the first one. When the bike is cold, the engine does not sound weird like loosing its pace. When the temperature goes higher (2-3 bars), the idle doesn't sound rhythmic and seems like loosing a bit the pace here and there. I do notice this abnormality every time the temperature reaches the 3 bars. Apart from the sound, it affects also the performance of the bike; the throttle looses its linearity and smoothness and when starting the bike from still, the engine seems to struggle a bit and it requires more throttle to start moving (compared to when the bike is colder).

I apologize if I overwhelmed you with so much information, I will anyway go to a Yamaha dealer next week, but I thought that someone could have similar experiences.

Thanks

 

[youngy]

It would be worth a call to Yamaha to check if the recall has been carried out on your bike - you could ask that same main dealer to check for you.

 

[dimos]

Thank you once again for your replies.

Erci,
you are right, the price is not too bad. I also got a second quote about the valves and the said about £120 (considering it will take about 2-2.5 hours), so, they can easily claim that it took them 3, 4 or 5 hours after the work is done....

youngy and fazil,
The bike starts pretty easy from cold and until it gets warm it rides excellent, no problems at all. I don't know when spark plugs were changed last time, but I could change all 4 of them as a pre-caution. The climate here in London is a bit wet and cold (2-10 degrees of Celcium) during winter. Any particular spark plug type/brand that you recommend? I'll also check the forum for that.

I called the Yamaha dealer and he confirmed that the TPS unit has never changed on my bike, so, he ordered one for me, free of charge. I will wait until I get the new TPS, wear it on my bike and then see if the problem I have persists.

Its weird though that the TPS may pass the check and still be bad. It seems that there are some functionalities for the TPS (other than reporting the values for the position of the throttle), which are not covered with the diagnostic on the bike.



So, what is my plan?


What I am going to do is buy a feeler gauge (Draper 10286 Feeler Gauge) and do myself the easy part: measure the clearances. Then, I will know if the valves need adjustment at all and how many of then need it. I will have then a rough estimation of how much time it will take the engineer to do the work. The service book is quite detailed on how to measure the valve clearance and it is way easier than adjustment.

Do you think that the throttle bodies would also require adjustment, based on the problem description of mine?

Do I need to buy any parts (even small ones like o-rings etc.) if I need only to check valve clearance?

Thank you

 

[youngy]

With an unknown service history, a throttle body balance can only be a good thing.

It may be worth investing in a new valve cover gasket for when you check the clearances.

Good luck with the new TPS - fingers crossed it solves the problem.

 

[dimos]

Thanks youngy for the useful suggestions, as I said, I'll do the followings first:

• change the spark plugs (purchased iridium CR9EIX NGK )
• wait for the new TPS and
• use the Seafoam that I already received

In the meanwhile if I am not very busy with work I may check the valve clearances so that I am aware of the bike's state (no adjustments will be applied though), and will replace the Gasket head cover.

Forgot to mention that when the engine is on, usually the smell of fuel is too strong.

Cheers

 

[youngy]

Fit a new air filter while you're in there

 

[dimos]

Yes, great, will do that, maybe I get a K&N instead of the stock, but it may require some tuning afterwards..not sure about that.
For sake of completeness, have also a look in Symptoms and actions I'll take in a relevant post:

Symptoms:

• My bike has 36000KM and I don't have the log-book, so it could be the valves. However, when I cover the exhaust output with my hand to minimize the noise, I don't hear the valves popping loud. I am not an expert though, and maybe valves can make noise only if they have totally bad clearances.
• The day I bought it I ran on an empty tank and I pushed the bike to its limits by constantly hitting the starter - run for some time - stalling - hit starter again and so on
  , so, it could be some dirt which used to seat on the bottom of the tank. I used BP fuel.
• There is usually strong smell of Petrol when the bike is on.
• When cold and before warms up for good (e.g. have 3-bars temp indication) the bike runs smoothly
• The idle speed used to be well below 1100rpm and the engine stalling was happening more frequently. I have adjusted the idle to 1270-1350rpm, but for longer distances in the traffic, when the temp goes higher (after 15mins riding) the idle rpm jump to 1350-1420rmp.
• Everytime the bike stalls (even now), the engine feels and sounds weird, the rpm drop suddenly below 1000 (no matter that the idle is adjusted higher) and then it stalls when I pull the clutch.

Actions I'll take:

• got Seafoam and will use it on a full tank of high-octane fuel
• will dry the Tank from Petrol and try to see if there is any dirt, then I'll try to find a way to remove it
• got new iriduim spark plugs and will fit them
• I have already asked for a TPS replacement (its a 2005 model and it was never replaced)
• I'll try to measure the valve clearence m self so that I know if this is the problem (I won't adjust them though)
• You idea about the air filter is good, so I'' get a K&N (does it require any further tuning if I wear on the K&N, since more air will be pushed in the combustion chamber ?)

Thread:
http://www.600riders.com/forum/uk/34525-affordable-workshop-service-london.html#post363098


I apologize for double-posting, but I asked for an affordable UK workshop in the "UK group" and ended up at the same discussion topic.
I'll ask people from there to post here, in the main thread.

Regards

 

[Morrisey]

Whats it like to start from cold? If your valves are really out big time then you will have difficulty in starting the bike. Checking and changing the shims is a doddle if you have a set of feeler gauges and a torque wrench.

 

[dimos]

Even in cold weather, it starts quite easily. One touch to ignition switch and the engine starts running, no problems, I actually enjoy doing it, is the best part..then it comes the fear of potential stalling problems :BLAA:

Does the easy-cold start indeed mean that valve clearances are not so de-tuned ? (may not be perfectly adjusted, but not so bad that could cause stalling and hiccups)

I am a bit sceptic about changing my self the shims. I believe that if I see someone doing it once, I ll have no problem. My fear is cracking something on the valve cover while trying to expose the shim. Also, I'll need to remove the cylinder head cover twice, one time to measure (and check what shim sizes I need) and a second time to put on the new shims (I've no private space).

As I said before, while the engine is not too hot, it rides like a charm. This "good" period is from the time the idle drops down (meaning that temperature is fine and you can actually ride the bike) and for about 5-10 (maximum) minutes.

I read a few more posts and checked also similar complaints throughout Google, and it seems to me that it very likely to be a faulty TPS. Its never changed and it is 2005 model, chances are high, and symptoms are similar.

The only doubt I have about the potential TPS-solution, is

"why a faulty TPS never affects a not-so-warm engine??"

A possible explanation:
Well, the problem may not be caused by temperature, but because of "time". The engine needs some time to obtain hight temp, and the faulty TPS may also need some time to start the crazy dance. So, if this claim is correct, inevitably, the problem would never show up during the first 5-10 minutes of a running engine. And also, it would always show-up in a well warmed-up engine. Here is another supporting evidence: after stalling, it helps to stop for 1 minute, push the kill-switch, and then restart the bike. Not perfect after that, but somewhat better.

For the time being, I'll only change air-filter/spark plugs, use Seafoam, check the tank for dirt and wait for the telephone call to collect the TPS unit replacement. Until then..fingers crossed. If things don't improve after all these, I'll definitely consider doing the valves (sooner than I would normally do).