Start squealing sound after just opened and checked one side of the brake pads??

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Hi there,
I'm new here and apologize if I ask a repetitive question. I had no squealing prior before changing the front tire. (The bike is my only commute vehicle that helps me save lot of time through Los Angeles 105W/E & 405S/N round trip 75miles/day,,,helps a lot of saving time. And I've started loving the bike after making many mods on the LED lighting, maintenance..etc)

So I brought the bike to the shop to change the front tire, I was around the mechanic while he was changing the tire. It was great, I've been riding since last 3 weeks no problem and didn't hear the squealing or didn't check the drag.

I then last two week opened up the right front caliper (just opened the two bolts of the caliper to pull out the whole caliper) to check how much brake pad thickness left, it's still half (at 15K miles). I just put it back, tighten the two bolts.

Since last week and now
Squealing sound: I started hearing the squealing when apply very light touch on the front brake at slow speed but when I squeeze little bit stronger, I don't hear the sound anymore. The squealing sound seems to happen only when at slow speed with very light touch on the brake and I seem to hear it happen on the right brake (the one I opened to check the brake pad and put it back on)
Drag: I notice that there is little more drag sound when I turn the wheel, it does 2 revolution on its on but the drag sound on the brake very obvious too much drag

Questions:
a. Is it because the front brake side I opened and tighten down the bolt maybe too tight causing the drag and squealing sound?
b. OR is it because the mechanic tighten the bolts both side too tight and causing the drag more than before? given I never check the drag after the tire replaced as I just noticed it last week and now
c.will changing the brake pads be resolving the problem? I hesitate to do it since the brake pads still have almost half or maybe it's time to change now rather than troubleshooting/looking for the problem to solve?

Thank you very much for all your time for helping on this, much appreciate it!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The first thing I would do is loosen (so its hand loose) the allen key pinch bolt on the lower right fork leg.. Do NOT loosen the main axle

Stand the bike up (all the brakes still assembled as normal).

Then push up and down on the forks several times hold the front brakes on.

What this does is allow the wheel / brakes to center itself on the axle in relation to the forks. Retighten to 17 ft lbs.


The stainless steel anti-rattle "spring" atop the pads should only go on one way. There's an arrow imprinted in the spring the should be visable and facing forward if installed correctly

Its also possible he put the pads back, NOT in their orignal spots and now their re-breaking in. You can scruff the pads up on a flat surface (I just use a flat side walk) to remove any glazing (just a little).

A little bit of BRAKE SPECIFIC grease on the BACK of the pads(where they touch the pistons) will also help eliminate squeeling. Your brake pads should be fine and don't need replacement.

Just as an FYI, it sounds as thou you have plenty of "FREE Spin" (2 rotations). Yamaha recommends brake caliber seal replacement every two years however I've found 4-5 years more realistic. Once your rotation is down to 3/4 to a 1/2 turn, I would get those seals replaced.

I would also get some brake cleaner and spray down the brake calipers to remove any built up crap, especially around the pistons. I would personally pull the calipers off so you can get in there fully for a good cleaning (and you can put some cardboard inbetween the brake and the wheel).

PM sent as well

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Awesome, I will try re-seat method as you mentioned this weekend as the bike is my primary commute vehicle (and I hate sitting in traffic in LA as it will take me 1.5hr one way or 3hr round trip!)

I hope I won't go through the seals replacement/bleeding/brake oil change at all as it's too much time to spend.

I will let you know the result Thanks so much and I feel very warm as there has been a forum for Yamaha FZ6

(Townsend - you have the same bike like mine 2007 FZ6 :rockon!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

(Townsend - you have the same bike like mine 2007 FZ6 :rockon!

Yep, I saw that, the faster blue??

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

I did loose the lower right pinch bolt and try to re-seat method you mentioned but it still does squealing sound in the very slow speed ,,like 10-12mph with very light touch on the brake..

Should I try to do both side instead of one? I double-checked and looks like the brakepads touching even both side...

So I will loose the pinch bolt both side and hold the brake and try to pump the fork and have someone re-tighten both side pinch bolts....question: should I continue hold on the brake while the pinch bolts being re-tighten? or just release the brake and re-tighten them?

Questions: should I do as the below and do you think it worth to try out?
If it doesn't work, I might try to open the brake both side,
1. clean up with aircompressor and the piston
2. push the piston back
3. Rub the brakepads on the nice pavement surface
4. put brakepads back on with the re-seat method
5. pump the brake lever few times to piston pushing back into its last position
6. test for the squealing

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I did loose the lower right pinch bolt and try to re-seat method you mentioned but it still does squealing sound in the very slow speed ,,like 10-12mph with very light touch on the brake..

Should I try to do both side instead of one? I double-checked and looks like the brakepads touching even both side...

So I will loose the pinch bolt both side and hold the brake and try to pump the fork and have someone re-tighten both side pinch bolts....question: should I continue hold on the brake while the pinch bolts being re-tighten? or just release the brake and re-tighten them?

Questions: should I do as the below and do you think it worth to try out?
If it doesn't work, I might try to open the brake both side,
1. clean up with aircompressor and the piston
2. push the piston back
3. Rub the brakepads on the nice pavement surface
4. put brakepads back on with the re-seat method
5. pump the brake lever few times to piston pushing back into its last position
6. test for the squealing

There's only ONE pinch bolt(rt side), the left side, the axle screws directly into the fork...

To clean the pistons somewhat without pulling them (and NO fluid loss), pull one caliper off at a time. Remove the pads. Put a wood spacer (or two pads-kinda ackward) inbetween TWO OPPOSING PISTONS.

Now, keeping an eye on the master cylinder fluid, PUMP the brake lever. This will push the other two pistons out so you clean them.

Brake cleaner, a tooth brush, a shoe string work well. If one piston doesn't want to come out, put a C-Clamp on the opposing piston and tighten. Hydralic fluid will force the sticky one outwards..

Repeat with the other two pistons, then the other side.

Note, when you find one piston really sticky, its a tip you need to start thinking about new brake caliber seals. The rubber seals harden up (over time) and doesn't pull the pistons back(and get sticky too). The pads tend to rub more than need be.

In bad cases, you can feel the front rotors(using the rear brake only) warm or hot to the touch WITHOUT USING THEM after going for a ride..

Were the anti rattle springs installed correctly, with the imprinted arrow facing forward and visably on the top?

 

[greg]

A little copper grease on the back of the pad where it touches the piston should stop any squeals. The brake pad back rubbing against the piston usually causes the sqeals. If they are dragging then this is a separate issue.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A little copper grease on the back of the pad where it touches the piston should stop any squeals. The brake pad back rubbing against the piston usually causes the sqeals. If they are dragging then this is a separate issue.

Yepper, I posted that in post #2, (my initial post, about in the middle, on 10-15-14).

Don't know if it was done thou...

 

[greg]

Yepper, I posted that in post #2, (my initial post, about in the middle, on 10-15-14).

Don't know if it was done thou...

sorry, i just did a search for "copp" and didn't see anything :thumbup:

do you use red rubber grease for this then? this is what I think of when I see "brake specific grease"

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

OK...I know what allen key pinch bolt is...it is the little pinch bolt that tight to the main axle face forward...I think it's 10mm allen pinch bolt. I will try again the re-seating method...it must be it cause the bike is relative new 15K miles..

anti-rattle spring is installed correctly as I checked and found the arrow point forward!

So cleaning the piston/caliper method you mentioned here is not to pull the piston out completely right? just push it out and use some toothbrush, aircompressor to clean up the dust and push them back in?



thx,
jh

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Phewssss...it looks like re-seating brake method by loosing the pinch bolt 6mm allen key works!

1. I loosed that 6mm pinch bolt the little allen key on the axle
2. Held the brake and kept pushing the fork up/down
3. Had someone re-tighten the allen key to 17ft.lb
4. Testing:
a. 1st test , there was very little squealing sound at very slow speed with very light force apply on the brake
b. 2nd test, while at the slow speed, squeezed the brake little bit harder and at the stationary held the brake harder and kept pushing the fork up/down
c. 3rd test, slow speed riding and applied very light force on the brake to reproduce the issue - SURPRISE no more squealing sound!
d. 4th test, kept riding the bike at slow speed and tried to apply very light force on the brake if the squealing sound is still around - confirmed no more squealing sound.
5. checked all the bolt, screws if they are tighten enough force of course - always check them after any operation and before hitting the road!

As of I'm working from home today so there is no real road test yet but it should be confirmed the squealing sound gone as it only happened at very slow speed..

I will update the progress/issue again if it still happens tomorrow (I hope not)

I hope this progress info will help any FZ6 owner if it's happened to them. (I called the motor sport shop where they replaced my front tire and asked them if they did the brake re-seating method like loosing the allen key...they said no worry, bring the bike back and they will check and correct it NO CHARGE - however I did it with the help of fellow riders up here - very very appreciated the FZ6 community here!)

As for the fellow riders OC/LA, BellFlower Motorsport is great place to go with any replacement need for your bike with reasonable price if you happen to need anything (as I said in another post, front tire replacement is $27 tax included, rear tire replacement is $47 incl.tax and so on most of replacement cost is $47 incl.tax!). FYI, I ain't affiliated to the shop but just share the info one of the great shop I've been with.

Again, thanks Townsend..for his great helpful info - I hope that's it for resolving the squealing sound otherwise I will follow your instruction to clean the brake, scrubbing it..etc!

Have safe riding my fellow FZ6/all riders!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

OK...I know what allen key pinch bolt is...it is the little pinch bolt that tight to the main axle face forward YEPPER...I think it's 10mm allen pinch bolt. I will try again the re-seating method...it must be it cause the bike is relative new 15K miles..

anti-rattle spring is installed correctly as I checked and found the arrow point forward! GOOD..

So cleaning the piston/caliper method you mentioned here is not to pull the piston out completely right? CORRECT just push it out and use some toothbrush, air compressor to clean up the dust and push them back in? YES



thx,
jh

As Greg also pointed out as well, the squeeling is usually from the pads vibrating ever so slightly making the squeel. The Brake Specific grease (on the back of the brake pads/up against the pistons, should get rid of most of the squeel (if not all of it).

Just read the above post (missed the second page)....Good!

With the shop manual, the FZ is a pretty easy bike to work on if you have a small garage. Yes, you may have to but tools (I'm a tool fanatic), but instead of paying the shop, you buy the tools, learn how to do it, now you have tools and don't have to depend on anyone. A win / win! There's ALOT of information on the forum and some VERY KNOWLEDGABLE folks to help as well.

Just as a side note, I've found very few shops I would trust my bike to. I've had more problems from a "professional shop" screwing things up worse (under warranty).

The chain tension for instance is MUCH looser than MOST bikes out there and is OFTEN overtightened by shops (not good). The adjustment procedure is in the owners manual and is one of the most mis-adjusted things done by many shops and can cause damage/excess wear. There are numerous posts about odd sounds, etc, that are attributed to too tight a chain..

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Ok - the re-seating actually helped but the squeaking sound's still happened but less than what it was before (maybe the same but my feeling/judgement told me it's less ).

Anyway I will open them up this Saturday!

USE this brake cleaner from Autozone

OR Home Depot Simple Green as brake cleaner?

GREASE from Autozone the brake pads' back with this:

Questions about cleaning the brake with brake cleaners:
a. Remove the brake pads, put the plywood spacer in between, use air compressor to blow all debris, dust out
b. As using air to blow all the dust/debris while the plywood spacer (strong ones) in between, push the pistons out by using the brake lever and SPRAY/brush/clean them with toothbrush/chipbrush (I don't want to take/pull them out completely) with the brake cleaner OR it's better safe to use the SimpleGreen non-chemical cleaner (selling in homedepot)?
c. Use some air compressor again to blow the dirt, dust, debris after cleaning it with brakecleaner/simplegreen, clean again with soft napkins (while pistons are still out) and ensure they are clean, dry and no dust or dirt/debris anywhere
d. Push the piston back with some screw clamp using the plywood spacers
e. now the brake pads: Should I clean the brake pads with simplegreen brake cleaner as well? so they will be nice/clean
f. Should I clean up the brake pads' build up on the sides of the brake pads' themselves? I think I will use the small dremel to clean up the sides' build-up on the brake pads
g. Apply some brake grease on the back of the pads where they're contacted with the piston
h. NOW All pistons now are pushed back, re-assemble the brake pads and follow the re-seating to ensure brake pads are back in the right place - test if the squeaking sound's still persisted..

Thanks! JH

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ok - the re-seating actually helped but the squeaking sound's still happened but less than what it was before (maybe the same but my feeling/judgement told me it's less ).

Anyway I will open them up this Saturday!

USE this brake cleaner from Autozone

OR Home Depot Simple Green as brake cleaner?

GREASE from Autozone the brake pads' back with this:

Questions about cleaning the brake with brake cleaners:
a. Remove the brake pads, put the plywood spacer in between, use air compressor to blow all debris, dust out
b. As using air to blow all the dust/debris while the plywood spacer (strong ones) in between, push the pistons out by using the brake lever and SPRAY/brush/clean them with toothbrush/chipbrush (I don't want to take/pull them out completely) with the brake cleaner OR it's better safe to use the SimpleGreen non-chemical cleaner (selling in homedepot)?
c. Use some air compressor again to blow the dirt, dust, debris after cleaning it with brakecleaner/simplegreen, clean again with soft napkins (while pistons are still out) and ensure they are clean, dry and no dust or dirt/debris anywhere
d. Push the piston back with some screw clamp using the plywood spacers
e. now the brake pads: Should I clean the brake pads with simplegreen brake cleaner as well? so they will be nice/clean
f. Should I clean up the brake pads' build up on the sides of the brake pads' themselves? I think I will use the small dremel to clean up the sides' build-up on the brake pads
g. Apply some brake grease on the back of the pads where they're contacted with the piston
h. NOW All pistons now are pushed back, re-assemble the brake pads and follow the re-seating to ensure brake pads are back in the right place - test if the squeaking sound's still persisted..

Thanks! JH

The simple Green is good stuff but for any serious grease build up in there, I'd just use the good Brake cleaner.

I'd remove the pads, spray them down good, and would NOT use a dremel on them (you won't make a nice even surface). You can use some 50 grit paper on a VERY flat surface and rotate the pads around on there if need be (NOT just back and forth), just enough to break any glaze.

Cleaning the back of the pads is fine too (you can use a tooth brush for the hard to get to spots).

Re the pistons, the idea is to geth them out as far as possible WITHOUT BREAKING THE HYDRALIC SEAL. Once you see clean piston, you can stop there and clean what's showing. Once clean push it back in and do the opposite side. Repeat with the other set of pistons in that caliper.

Once all is nice and clean, that brake grease is fine (follow the directions-doesn't take much) on the back of the pads. Just make sure its a fairly high temp grease(should be ok, I use synthetic, Permatex brake grease). I also put just a touch on the edges of the ALUMINUM caliber, where the pads sit/ride. The more you put, the more grit it'll collect.

As a side note, once you get them nice and clean, I blow mine out with just air, probably every two weeks. Get a nice cloud of brake dust and I'm easy on the brakes. Simple Green sprayed around there while washing the bike later will help keep the build up to a minimum, just rinse well...

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Awesome Scott! I'm getting ready (another 5hr to get home and get to autozone to collect the cleaners, it's closed 9pm yeahhh!) to get this s*cker cleaned/solved this weekend - I really hate the squeaking sound! (who else doesn't ?)

Thanks again - have a great weekend my fellow riders!

 

[Wildcat_drvr]

A wide flat shoe string works pretty well when cleaning the pistons.
Put some cleaner on string and piston,
Just put string around the piston as far you can and zip-zop
Do from different ways and,,
It's cleaned!
Works for me.

Rich

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

what a disaster afternoon for me today :Flash:

OK,,,while I was cleaning the piston on the right (from sitting on the bike), one piston that I was curious while cleaning it and PULLED IT OUT ....well the oil came out LOL...I cleaned the oil from that caliper's piston hole by clean/dried Hanes T-shirt and pushed the piston back to original position (all the other pistons were still in there pushed-in position in both caliper....argggghhhh now I thought WTH I had to do the full bleeding and perhaps the brake fluid change because the moment I pushed that piston back in, the air was introduced in the brake system.....I called Autozone..the guy said "hey it's ok to use DOT3..."...I hopped on here and checked,,,and the master cylinder CAP said DOT4 (CAN'T TRUST that Autozone guy since he doesn't know it but just said "oh yeah, just use DOT3").

I picked up this DOT4 brake fluid - Lucas synthetic brake fluid DOT4 matched DOT4 brake fluid as the master cylinder written on the cap

Here what I did:
1. I bled the right brake until no AIR came out, locked down the air vale
2. I bled the left brake until no AIR came out, locked down the air vale
Almost a bottle brake fluid was used to ensure old oils complete drained and new oil was present and no more air bubbles.
3. started cleaning the piston and ensured piston came out smoothly
4. Testing brake by riding around, hard braking slow braking, emergency braking, turning the wheel for drag check..all good


Questions:
a. DOT4 oil, any concern using that brand below (designed for all disc and drum brake system requiring DOT4 brake fluid, designed for all hydraulic clutches that require DOT4 brake fluid. Minimum wet boiling point 155C or 311F). I assumed it ok since it synthetic DOT4 brake fluid specific - please advise
b. Bleeding method,,this was performed by two people operation, and using one man bleed system
c. Is there any concern that I just pulled out one piston accidentally and clean up the oil in that caliper hole and pushed it back? and I then replaced the oil since air came in already? )|I checked , triple check that there is no air now and piston are moving perfect!
d. drag check that wheel turning almost 1 revolution ( about 4/3) and braking in hard, slow , and emergency all good (I also put some CRC red disk brake quiet on the back on the brake pad's back so the squeaking is ALL GONE! any concern about the drag check that it does very good at 1 Rev?

thank you very much for any suggestion, guidance, and help!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The DOT 4 you used is fine.

As long as you bled it and the lever is normal, you should be good. I seriously doubt you pushed any old fluid back in from your description. As long as it was clean, no visable rust/crap, etc, you should be fine.

BTW, if you had new seals, a dental pick would have removed the dust and oil seal, put the new ones in!! (bleed and done!)

You can double check by going for a ride, stopping fairly hard (no traffic around) with the fronts only. CAREFULLY touch BOTH brake disc's. They should be equally hot. If one is hotter than the other, their either dragging, or the cooler one may still have air inside.

BTW, how sticky were the pistons with the seals and how dirty was everything?


One revolution by hand is ok. When my FJR seals went south on the way back from a road trip(same calipers), I could barely get 1/3 turn and the rotors were friggin hot (without using them). Knock on wood, I didn't warp them. New seals and the brake bleed, easily 4 free spins.

As noted earlier, Yamaha recommends seal replacement every TWO years.

I'm on about 2.5 years now since new seals and still have better than 4 rotations on my 07 FZ. When it gets down to one rotation, it'll get new seals again... There's no fixing old, hard rubber seals, replace them and don't worry for another 4-5 years..

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Is this the right seal kit? So I should purchase two, one set for one side as it shown. Or try to buy it from ebay or try to buy it from Yamahaparthouse.com for $105.xx shipped.

07 09 Yamaha FZ6 New K L Front Brake Caliper Rebuild Kit 32 7477 | eBay

I might do it when it's Christmas as I have 1.5 week off so it's just the circle seals but expensive though!

I remember some posts here that one guy did the seal replacement....might someone let me the URL? thanks so much!

thx,
jh

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is this the right seal kit? So I should purchase two, one set for one side as it shown. Or try to buy it from ebay or try to buy it from Yamahaparthouse.com for $105.xx shipped.

07 09 Yamaha FZ6 New K L Front Brake Caliper Rebuild Kit 32 7477 | eBay

I might do it when it's Christmas as I have 1.5 week off so it's just the circle seals but expensive though!

I remember some posts here that one guy did the seal replacement....might someone let me the URL? thanks so much!

thx,
jh

I personally would NOT go Chinese / aftermarket with brake seals, DEFINITLY OEM.

I won't cut corners on safety, a lever is one thing, you don't know how sloppy thier tolerances are with the seals....You don't want to do this twice.

And yes, for the seals, I re-call I needed two kits (OEM).

Back then, I ordered on line, about $80 delivered to my door for the FZ. Before that, I ordered for the FJR thru my local, private shop (around 2008), around $120. On-line, OEM is much cheaper...

You'll be fine till then (easily)...