Starts and Dies. HELP!

[BloodsweatnGears]

Hey all, Im new to the Fuel injected world and I have now come to own a 2007 Fz6, Has been previously laid down twice and I purchased as basically project that had been given up on. Plans will be to get her running. Fab up a dirt track inspiried front number plate/shield with an integrated LED light. Strip the while bike down naked and repaint her.


So,

I have replaced the Ignition with an Ebay special and the bike turns on all electrical seems fine I found traces of mice but no wires are chewed threw. I replaced the main fues and the main power wire.

I have ran the Diagnostic Mode and codes are clear (now at least)

I did the code 30 lean sensor on in the error codes but I have reset it and checked the sensor its in the upright position.. is there anyway to bypass this switch to confirm?

I can start the bike but it catches for a split second and dies. If i use starting fluid it will run for a few seconds and die again..

I can hear the fuel pump priming and the relay in the rear of the seat area clicking on and off.

The fuel pump is also running when the bike is turning over....

Any Ideas why the bike wont run?

Blah:shakehead:

 

[ozgurakman]

solve the code 30 issue. You would remove the lean sensor and make a jumper on it's wiring socket. I recommend to replace it if hotwiring works.

Also check the killswitch where stays on right side of handlebar.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The bike won't crank/ spin over if the RED kill switch(on the rt handlebar) is malfunctioning.


After getting that code cleared/by passed, if it still won't start, something to try;
Make sure the battery is fully charged. Then, hold the throttle WOT (do NOT close it). Crank for several seconds, stop. Do the same procedure several times(again, don't crank too much as it hard on the starter). Occassionally(actually rarely) the bike will flood (especially after NOT being run for awhile). This may clear it out.

If that doesn't do it, does the inside of the tank have ANY rust in it? The fuel filter is part of the pump and IF clogged, will still spin up but a "NO FLOW" situation may be occurring. Below is a pic of the filter and the screen I'm referring to. You can clean it to a point BUT it is NOT replaceable(yes, a new pump is needed). The no flow scenerio makes sense as well as possible clogged injectors...

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

both the lean sensor as well as the kickstand sensor are in my opinion in working condition operating correctly. motor will turn over all day with no hesitation amd with a shot of starting fluid it will run for a few seconds. When I disconnect the fuel line and prime the pump it gives a healthy blast of fuel(all over my garage). Is has been recommended to check feel pressure but I believe it this point it has something to do with the injectors not firing.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

both the lean sensor as well as the kickstand sensor are in my opinion in working condition operating correctly. motor will turn over all day with no hesitation amd with a shot of starting fluid it will run for a few seconds. When I disconnect the fuel line and prime the pump it gives a healthy blast of fuel(all over my garage). Is has been recommended to check feel pressure but I believe it this point it has something to do with the injectors not firing.

Did the lean sensor code ever clear out?

Agreed, sounds like you have flow up to that point.

Did you try the WOT just for S&G's?

[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION], [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] (for thier input)..

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ thanks

I would opt for using tea spoon full of actual fuel into each Throttle Body. It will blubber but run long enough to give you clear idea that the ignition works and is not the source of disfunction.
- In addition, starting fluid is VERY HARD on high compression engines. You risk breaking rings and blowing head gaskets.

It sounds like the pump never shuts off. When these work properly, the pump primes and shuts off. IDK this for certain, but I believe the ECU is looking at the pumps current draw (load sensing). As the pump begins to build pressure against the internal pressure regulator, it takes more current and the ECU can sense this. Because it DOES NOT DETECT the crankshaft spinning (you didn't push the start button), it now turns the pump off to save energy. If you push start the bike, it senses the crank movement and turns the pump on....
This explains why the pump runs longer after the fuel rail has been opened and has lost its prime. It senses load and if it leaks, it keeps priming as there is no load. Mind you this pump will shoot fuel clean across the shop even with an internal leak! Based on this; I bet its NOT building Pressure and IF you measured it; it would be below the 36 PSI value it needs to run.

In short - at idle/during starting, the injection duration is an extremely short period of time. If the pressure regulator is leaking, its likely NOT getting fuel during the injection cycle. So, rig a way to test the pressure **SAFELY** OR pull the pump and inspect the P/R for debris stuck in it making it leak all the time.

See this thread for pictures and details: FUEL TANK, FUEL PUMP, AND FUEL GAUGE

Inside the fuel pump:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
5VX-13907-02-00 20S-13907-00 FZ6

End view, expand these locks to remove pressure regulator:

Pressure Regulator: FZ6 set at 36 PSI Debris trapped in the regulator will limit pressure as it creates a leak!

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

yes the lean sensor has cleared out. When I turn the ignition on the fuel pump primes runs for a few seconds and shuts itself off. If I put my ear to the tank while pressing the starting button I can hear the fuel pump running. I will check the fuel pressure tomorrow and if it's found to be lacking I will disassemble and attempt to clean it. the bike has sat for more then year i would guess.
I did empty out all the old fuel which there was not much of and put in fresh fuel as well as a fuel injector cleaner additive.

** I have tried wide open throttle. I have also tried wide open and holding it to clear a flooded throttle body

 

[FinalImpact]

yes the lean sensor has cleared out. When I turn the ignition on the fuel pump primes runs for a few seconds and shuts itself off. If I put my ear to the tank while pressing the starting button I can hear the fuel pump running. I will check the fuel pressure tomorrow and if it's found to be lacking I will disassemble and attempt to clean it. the bike has sat for more then year i would guess.
I did empty out all the old fuel which there was not much of and put in fresh fuel as well as a fuel injector cleaner additive.

** I have tried wide open throttle. I have also tried wide open and holding it to clear a flooded throttle body

I didn't catch that the pump actually shuts off. I'd still lift the tank, pop the air box lid and add fuel. Report back.... It should fire and be all bubbly, you can rev it a bit but if theres no fuel it will just die.

Does it have a fuel controller?

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

I didn't catch that the pump actually shuts off. I'd still lift the tank, pop the air box lid and add fuel. Report back.... It should fire and be all bubbly, you can rev it a bit but if theres no fuel it will just die.

Does it have a fuel controller?

it is stock.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Starts and Dies (w/starter Fluid). HELP!

While the tanks up disconnect the battery and then decouple the following connectors looking for damage.
ECU main connector ~ 38+ pins...
Fuel Injector plug. Its on the left right next to ECU has 5 wires, 6 pin white housing IIRC...

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Can this even be right?

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

I didn't catch that the pump actually shuts off. I'd still lift the tank, pop the air box lid and add fuel. Report back.... It should fire and be all bubbly, you can rev it a bit but if theres no fuel it will just die.

Does it have a fuel controller?

Also. All pins and connectors appear to be in good condition. She garged and choked when i dripped in fuel..
Then she puffed a nice flame out cyl. 3. I think its my pressure... but im not 100% on method of checking. Hence the photo above.

 

[Motogiro]

Also. All pins and connectors appear to be in good condition. She garged and choked when i dripped in fuel..
Then she puffed a nice flame out cyl. 3. I think its my pressure... but im not 100% on method of checking. Hence the photo above.

I think you're supposed to see about 36 psi. Make sure there no air between that guage and the output of the pump. Does it have a bleed valve?

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

It does... I cant remeber if I bled it or not...I know I did after.... I'll double check it and try again in the morning

 

[FinalImpact]

9 psi would explain why she doesn't run. Nice little setup there. You did Great!
So that leaves 4 items all in the fuel tank.

1) Pick up screen is dirty. But you said it shoots volume.
2) It has an internal suction leak (inlet side).
3) Pressure Regulator stuck open or a leak after the pump.
4) Pump worn beyond clearance and won't build pressure.

IMO because it shoots a volume of fluid, that removes 1 & 2 and unless there's a bunch of crap in the tank, #4 also.

So, pull the tank, empty it and remove the pump asm. Some leave the float asm in the tank, it unclips.
Remover the P/R and set air compressor regulator to say 10psi and apply pressure to P/R and the valve should leak (like your test).
If it holds to 36psi, that means our problem is somewhere else. Depending on gauge accuracy it may hold upwards of 40psi. If it leakes at 10 like your test shows, well its got debris stuck in it and is unable to build pressure. Clean the debris and you fix your problem.

Well except the debris in the tank issue. Depending on what you find in the valve, clean or replace the sock and maybe clean your tank...

 

[FinalImpact]

It does... I cant remember if I bled it or not...I know I did after.... I'll double check it and try again in the morning

Also, I believe this to be true - as long as the pump is not cavitating its going to register the pressure at the gauge even with air in the line. Pressure is Pressure for the purposes of our testing down stream of the pump.

If however, the pump is sucking air, then it can't build pressure. It has to have a head of fluid at its rotor (turbine) to build pressure. That said, its internal clearances are very tight. If a substantial amount of grit ran through it, that could open it up (rotor to pump body clearance) and prevent it from building pressure. I find this unlikely.....but I would completely disassemble this thing. Check for debris in every orifice!

From the other thread -
Inside the Electric Pump: They call it a turbine. Me, its the pump rotor. Debris wears it or jambs it solid. Once locked solid it burns up the motor.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

In post #3, the last pic I posted, with the arrows, shows how to disconnect the fuel level sending gauge from the pump. It is MUCH EASIER to release these clips and pull it out in two units(wires still attach as I re-call).

It will go back in ASSEMBLED once done...

**Pay attention to the insides of the tank for rust. Rust inside there WILL CAUSE ISSUES.

I ask in that its NOT uncommon for a partially filled fuel tank to rust badly internally and cause pump issues.. Answers to these would help going in the right direction getting it running again..

 

[Motogiro]

Also, I believe this to be true - as long as the pump is not cavitating its going to register the pressure at the gauge even with air in the line. Pressure is Pressure for the purposes of our testing down stream of the pump.

If however, the pump is sucking air, then it can't build pressure. It has to have a head of fluid at its rotor (turbine) to build pressure. That said, its internal clearances are very tight. If a substantial amount of grit ran through it, that could open it up (rotor to pump body clearance) and prevent it from building pressure. I find this unlikely.....but I would completely disassemble this thing. Check for debris in every orifice!

I totally agree with checking for debris especially on the input!
I was thinking that if there was air in the output line to the gauge that you'd get a false reading. An example would be air in a brake line. Although there is plenty of output pressure from the master cylinder you don't have the pressure needed hence spongy weak braking. This is because the air has a different density.

 

[FinalImpact]

I totally agree with checking for debris especially on the input!
I was thinking that if there was air in the output line to the gauge that you'd get a false reading. An example would be air in a brake line. Although there is plenty of output pressure from the master cylinder you don't have the pressure needed hence spongy weak braking. This is because the air has a different density.

Lets call it Working under Pressure!! :thumbup:
- Is it fair to say in your example that lets say, 15,000 PSI may have been applied, but due to decreased density of the media (air) the larger pistons did not move with the same force that was applied because the media compressed! But it still has 15,000 PSI? YES??!?! But the "intended" work was not done when the air molecules got cozy! Enlighten me!

I've never done the math on brake pressure. It has all those lever angles and multipliers...

Maybe I read this from another post, but I coulda swore I saw something about it shoots gas out. A plugged screen doesn't do that well. Most behave more like a trickle fountain if the inlet is occluded.

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Its safe to assume you guys dont keep spare potting soil for your wife in your gas tank's right? What was this ****er thinking....

fpr is out. Gonna blow it out and clean it a bit
Cleaned off the parts i removed from the tank.... gotta wash the whole tank out as well tonight. Minimal to no rust to mention..
But dirt... straight up dirt.. Thats just negligence or stupidity.