The Story of My First Crash 12-2-2012

[Erci]

Tell me I'm wrong guys if my thinking is off. Or maybe ERCI is spot on, I just should have come up like they teach in the class and grabbed the break hard. I may have stopped before the edge and stopped from laying the bike down but I dunno if I still would have went over and still layed the bike down. LOL over analyzing.

Hey, we NEVER teach to *grab* the brake hard! :BLAA:

No matter how fast you have to stop, brake has to be applied progressively. I always tell my students "it's like squeezing juice from lemon".

I don't think it's possible to say what exactly would be the best approach to negotiate that particular curve + hazard without seeing it in person, but in general it comes down to this:

If the bike is straight up, you can apply 100% braking.
If you're leaned over as far as you can go, you're using a LOT of traction.. say 80%.. that means you can apply less than ~20% brake without losing traction.

Question is, how many of us are good enough to accurately gauge what % of traction we're using up for the lean and how hard can we apply the brakes to not go over traction limit?

This is exactly why exercise 14 in BRC (braking in a curve) teaches students to completely separate the 2 actions: Lean into turn, straighten, then brake.

Can't always do this though without going off the road or crossing into oncoming traffic and this is where "straighten, brake, re-point" technique would come into play.

 

[Ssky0078]

Hey, we NEVER teach to *grab* the brake hard! :BLAA:

If the bike is straight up, you can apply 100% braking.
If you're leaned over as far as you can go, you're using a LOT of traction.. say 80%.. that means you can apply less than ~20% brake without losing traction.

This is exactly why exercise 14 in BRC (braking in a curve) teaches students to completely separate the 2 actions: Lean into turn, straighten, then brake.

Can't always do this though without going off the road or crossing into oncoming traffic and this is where "straighten, brake, re-point" technique would come into play.

Thank you for pointing out the exact exercises. I believe at first I did exercise 14 "Lean into turn, straighten, then brake", then realizing the cliff was directly in line and I didn't think I could get it stopped I moved on to "straighten, brake, re-point" technique. My lean in was about 50-60% of my max.

And I know to spueeze the break :BLAA:, I tried to but once I hit the shoulder I grabbed it hard as I was still going around 10 mph

 

[Ssky0078]

Well guys as for an update,

I'm going to finally go get a medical evaluation tomorow. I am still not feeling back to 100% with some mild concussion symptoms and my collarbone has been hurting more especially after laying on it while sleeping, so I am a little worried I may have a hairline fracture. Wish me luck.

The bike damage estimate for the shop to repair my bike back to her original beauty is about $7500, $6500 in parts alone.

Am I being an idiot but I keep thinking about getting an Fz8 with the insurance check if it's enough? Or I should I just get an '09 black Fz6 just like my wrecked one? Or am I a complete idiot because I'm more into getting a new bike than going to the doctor and I have 10k in medical coverage?

Thanks again guys, I even talked to my dad who has years of riding experience and he said a lot of what was said already. I can't wait to get back on 2 wheels.

Does anyone else feel like they are caged when riding in a cage?

 

[david323]

I'm partial to the FZ6 and say get that and use the extra for those upgrades you want...

 

[Erci]

Does anyone else feel like they are caged when riding in a cage?

YES!

Definitely get yourself checked out though. Hope it's nothing.

 

[rsw81]

Dude, you just took the BRC and wrecked a 600cc motorcycle. Why would moving up to an 800 sound like a good idea right now?

I too love the new FZ8 with the fully adjustable suspension and better looking exhaust, but you should be taking it easy right now and starting smaller. Moving up in displacement too quickly is a sure way to get yourself into trouble again.

 

[Ssky0078]

Dude, you just took the BRC and wrecked a 600cc motorcycle. Why would moving up to an 800 sound like a good idea right now?

I too love the new FZ8 with the fully adjustable suspension and better looking exhaust, but you should be taking it easy right now and starting smaller. Moving up in displacement too quickly is a sure way to get yourself into trouble again.

I agree and the only logic I can offer in the deffense of my desire is the wreck I had was likely to happen at 250cc, 500cc, 600cc, 750cc, 800cc, 1000cc and on up. I don't think the bike was the cause of the wreck. I think my skill, the road condition, the light condition and dumb luck were the primary contributors. In regard to my skill again I don't blame the bike. Maybe I could have had a fraction of a second of more time to recover with a smaller displacement bike or non-sport bike. But it makes me think of my neighbor growing up shot himself in a leg with a .22lr because he tried to stuff it in a waste band and plaxico burress shot himself with a 9mm. Both are left with hole that has to heal up. However, i don't think I would be as much in love with riding if I was on anything different than a sport bike like the Fz series.

Who knows after my evaluation I will be brought back down to reality.

 

[rsw81]

I agree and the only logic I can offer in the deffense of my desire is the wreck I had was likely to happen at 250cc, 500cc, 600cc, 750cc, 800cc, 1000cc and on up. I don't think the bike was the cause of the wreck. I think my skill, the road condition, the light condition and dumb luck were the primary contributors. In regard to my skill again I don't blame the bike. Maybe I could have had a fraction of a second of more time to recover with a smaller displacement bike or non-sport bike. But it makes me think of my neighbor growing up shot himself in a leg with a .22lr because he tried to stuff it in a waste band and plaxico burress shot himself with a 9mm. Both are left with hole that has to heal up. However, i don't think I would be as much in love with riding if I was on anything different than a sport bike like the Fz series.

Who knows after my evaluation I will be brought back down to reality.

My point is that your skill is still very new and not fully developed. Additionally, the FZ8 is a heavier bike and slower to turn-in. Had you been on a 250, you possibly could have avoided this accident purely because the bike is so light, easy to handle, and turns-in really easily. You could have ridden through the gravel area and turns back in with more ease than on a bigger bike (FZ6 or FZ8).

Everyone thinks they are a great rider after taking the BRC course. Reality is something entirely different. When I first finished, I thought I was really hauling it around corners; pushing the bike to it's limits. Then I went riding with someone who has been riding for 25+ years (Cali-Rider) who passed me on the OUTSIDE of a turn on the same exact bike. I realized then I still had a lot to learn.

Hopefully you'll make the smart decision and either get another FZ6 or frankly even something smaller. The new Honda CBR250 is supposed to be an amazing bike and looks the part.

First and foremost, you need to take care of that head and heal up properly. See PM for more details on post-concussive syndrome.

Rob

 

[Ssky0078]

My point is that your skill is still very new and not fully developed. Additionally, the FZ8 is a heavier bike and slower to turn-in. Had you been on a 250, you possibly could have avoided this accident purely because the bike is so light, easy to handle, and turns-in really easily. You could have ridden through the gravel area and turns back in with more ease than on a bigger bike (FZ6 or FZ8).

Everyone thinks they are a great rider after taking the BRC course. Reality is something entirely different. When I first finished, I thought I was really hauling it around corners; pushing the bike to it's limits. Then I went riding with someone who has been riding for 25+ years (Cali-Rider) who passed me on the OUTSIDE of a turn on the same exact bike. I realized then I still had a lot to learn.

Hopefully you'll make the smart decision and either get another FZ6 or frankly even something smaller. The new Honda CBR250 is supposed to be an amazing bike and looks the part.

First and foremost, you need to take care of that head and heal up properly. See PM for more details on post-concussive syndrome.

Rob

HaAHaHa, I know I'm not a very skilled rider. Thanks for pointing out the weight difference on the 8 and turn in. I don't mind throwing the weight around as I'm a big guy and not that weak, but I'm sure it does make a difference. I would agree with you on maybe a 250 I could have prevented the accident by having less torque and lighter weight to lean back in and repoint. But, on the flip if I had a 250 on the rest of the rides I've done, I would not even be riding still due to sheer boredom.

I know that whatever I do I will get the suspension upgraded and setup before I go on anymore twisty roads. I think being almost double the ideal rider weight for the OEM setup is not good (250 vs 140/150)

Finally, I fully intend to do the Total Control Advanced Riding Course Series as soon as possible. The sad thing is that I will probably miss the class on the 14th of this month and have to wait till December. I know there is a learning curve to all this and I equate it to school. You start out in regular class, earn your way into honors class and then into AP classes. In the meantime you go out and have real world application time.

 

[Ssky0078]

So, I saw the doctor yesterday and he ordered imaging. I had 2 xrays of my collarbone, 7 xrays of my cervical spine, 2 xrays of the thoracic spine, 5 xrays of my lumbar spine and a CT scan of my brain today.

I still have a headache, a little neck pain, my collarbone feels like a hairline fracture adn my low back hurts a little.

This recovery business is weird to me. I've torn ligaments in ankles, meniscus in my knee, rotator cuff, etc and the pain there is always acute in the moment. This pain has been coming up over the last couple of days and I was so amped up after the crash I hardly felt any problems.

I can't believe all that from a crash at about 10 mph. I can't imagine how all you guys do it that went down at higher speeds.

 

[PhotoAl]

Was looking at the FZ8 a couple of days ago, looking over the FZ6, FZ8 and FZ1 would have to to for the FZ6 or FZ1. FZ8 is a very nice bike and much smoother on throttle response but no real performance advantage over the FZ6 plus it heavier. Going to the FZ1 gets a lot more performance. Other bikes and contemplating are the Triumph 675 (Street or Daytona) and the Honda CBR600RR (R6 is too aggressive).

Just my thoughts. Saw a Ninja 300 yesterday and it looks like a great bike.

 

[Ssky0078]

Was looking at the FZ8 a couple of days ago, looking over the FZ6, FZ8 and FZ1 would have to to for the FZ6 or FZ1. FZ8 is a very nice bike and much smoother on throttle response but no real performance advantage over the FZ6 plus it heavier. Going to the FZ1 gets a lot more performance. Other bikes and contemplating are the Triumph 675 (Street or Daytona) and the Honda CBR600RR (R6 is too aggressive).

Just my thoughts. Saw a Ninja 300 yesterday and it looks like a great bike.

I like both the Triumph and CBR600RR but unfortunately I don't fit well on either one of them.

I think I finally got enough info from the Fz1 forum. I asked the same question and 1 guy said get it, 2 said wait a little longer.

I figure now if I get a good deal on a low mileage Fz6 from up north, I can put on 10-15k miles before Arizona summer kicks in. Then I can get rid of it and look around for something else. Also can probably complete all the advance rider courses on it which would be nice in case I drop it.

I think I was mainly just getting bored with the "snap" at launch with the Fz6 because I was getting it down so somoothly. The twisty's like from my video I felt good enough and probably should try with upgraded suspension first and then move to bigger bike as my skill improves (maybe a couple track days as well).

 

[Ssky0078]

Well guys,

I just went out to the crash scene after work tongiht. I got video footage. I stuck my GoPro on the hood of my POS car and recorded audio with my Canon camera. I'm going to mix it all together.

I will tell you what. Erci you were right, I should of just came up and stopped. I think the amount my back tire slid scared me so much that I got tunnel vision and all I saw was the abyss in front of me. Then I thought I could save it and ended up fuc*ing up more, probably a combo of target fixation and not being comfortable with getting on the brakes in a degenerating situation.

I think my ego got involved in my desire to want to save it.

On the video timer it all took place in about 5 seconds. At 25 mph decelerating down to 10mph, then to 5 mph, then to crash I should have done better.

It's probably going to take me 2-3 hours to mix the video. I'll update when done.

 

[Ssky0078]

Got the video up and edited. I need to figure out a way to make the rendering and editing faster.

I kind of give a recap. It definitely helped to go back to the scene and repiece everything together.

I think I just got scared when I was looking out toward the edge of the road. I didn't think I could brake fast enough and went for the save instead and only ended up going down anyway. It was a bad mix of low light, bad road, poor skill, target fixation and not trusting my ability to stop quick enough.

It all happened in 5 seconds or less.

Crash Review - YouTube

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Got the video up and edited. I need to figure out a way to make the rendering and editing faster.

I kind of give a recap. It definitely helped to go back to the scene and repiece everything together.

I think I just got scared when I was looking out toward the edge of the road. I didn't think I could brake fast enough and went for the save instead and only ended up going down anyway. It was a bad mix of low light, bad road, poor skill, target fixation and not trusting my ability to stop quick enough.

It all happened in 5 seconds or less.

Crash Review - YouTube

Excellent video...

The condition of that road is terrible, its literally falling apart...

IMHO, with the road crumbling apart, its like riding on ice, very, very difficult to stay up unless there's very little leaning and driving super slow...

You'd likely have done the same on a smaller bike....

Don't beat yourself up....

 

[Erci]

Excellent video...

The condition of that road is terrible, its literally falling apart...

IMHO, with the road crumbling apart, its like riding on ice, very, very difficult to stay up unless there's very little leaning and driving super slow...

You'd likely have done the same on a smaller bike....

Don't beat yourself up....

+1! Craptacular road! Thank God you didn't roll off the cliff! I absolutely crawl when surface is like that to pretty much take all the lean angle out of it.

 

[rsw81]

Got the video up and edited. I need to figure out a way to make the rendering and editing faster.

I kind of give a recap. It definitely helped to go back to the scene and repiece everything together.

I think I just got scared when I was looking out toward the edge of the road. I didn't think I could brake fast enough and went for the save instead and only ended up going down anyway. It was a bad mix of low light, bad road, poor skill, target fixation and not trusting my ability to stop quick enough.

It all happened in 5 seconds or less.

Crash Review - YouTube

Great video to demonstrate the road situation. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

With a loose shoulder and a turn off on the outside of the turn, you need to be super vigilant about gravel in the road. Looks like this road is falling apart regardless of the gravel that may have been pulled into the road by a car earlier that day. When I see a turn out on the outside of a turn, I try to consciously slow down a few ticks and also get closer to the middle of the road (away from the turn out) to minimize my chances of gravel.

I think you are probably right in that once you got some gravel, you saw the outside of the turn, had some element of target fixation, stood the bike up to brake an went wide. One of the things you can consider practicing is that once you stand the bike up to brake, that as you lean it back in, you need to get back on the gas gently. The suspension of motorcycles are designed to turn with gentle acceleration, loading the rear tire a little more than the front. When either braking or coasting, you are loading the front tire too much and the bike will not want to turn in as readily.

Hope the headaches have been getting better.

Rob

 

[motojoe122]

I couldnt watch it at work.....but I just got home and watched it. Exactly as you and everyone else said! I came across roads like that often in the Angeles Crest area in CA driving my truck. The gravel separates from the tar and looks like its safe.....NOT! You did the best you could and I commend you for it:thumbup:

 

[Ssky0078]

Great video to demonstrate the road situation. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

With a loose shoulder and a turn off on the outside of the turn, you need to be super vigilant about gravel in the road. Looks like this road is falling apart regardless of the gravel that may have been pulled into the road by a car earlier that day. When I see a turn out on the outside of a turn, I try to consciously slow down a few ticks and also get closer to the middle of the road (away from the turn out) to minimize my chances of gravel.

I think you are probably right in that once you got some gravel, you saw the outside of the turn, had some element of target fixation, stood the bike up to brake an went wide. One of the things you can consider practicing is that once you stand the bike up to brake, that as you lean it back in, you need to get back on the gas gently. The suspension of motorcycles are designed to turn with gentle acceleration, loading the rear tire a little more than the front. When either braking or coasting, you are loading the front tire too much and the bike will not want to turn in as readily.

Hope the headaches have been getting better.

Rob

That just about summed it up. I was afraid to get on the gas. I think I gave it a little nudge but at that point I was already straddling that white line. I tried to look up and back into the middle fo the road but just ran out of space and time.

Headaches are the same, maybe a little better. At least they are not getting worse. Thursday and Friday were bad work days and I was hurting when I got home. I told everybody to leave me alone for the next couple of weeks and do their job right so I don't have to stress. I also felt better when the full spinal xray series and head CT were all clean.

Interesting side note, the pain management office I went to get evaluated is owned by a chiropractor and I may be getting a new job/business partnership out of it. LOL, it took a sharp blow to my head to get my life going back on track. So, say a prayer if you're into that and I will get back into the realm of a fully responsible adult making a decent living.

Also, I just got word from the insurance. It will be a total loss. I should get just over 6k for all my gear, upgrades and bike. Could you believe they are paying for the upgraded iridium spark plugs I just put in? LOL

 

[Ssky0078]

Ok, you guys can also begin to give me grief but I think I'm going to put an offer on the Fz1 I found. I sat on a 2013 Fz1 today for a lil bit and the ergonomics are just that much easier on my body. I loved my little Fz6 and actually got sad after I signed the title over. But with the vibration, fear that I had stripped the spark plug, body parts going numb on long rides, etc I feel lucky that I am getting out of it.

I may get another Fz6 if the numbers dont' work out on the 1 but I'm a mean negotiator so we'll see how it goes.

After realizing how quick a crash can take place and how important road conditions are, I will definitely be a lot more cautious in the future regardless of the bike.

Honestly it really sucks that the only big and tall guy bikes are the HD, Cruisers or eggh a Goldwing.