Loud Pipes Debate...

[FZ1inNH]

I should also mention that I replaced my stock can with the Two Bros... While it is not obnoxious, it is loud. So, two days ago, I ordered the P4 tip (smallest) for it to reduce the DB. I did not buy this exhaust to be loud. I bought it because the stock can is uber-ugly and weighs 11.8 lbs more than the Two Bros. I think it is too loud. The cops, should they stop me, will ticket me because it IS too loud, and my wife, who often follows me, says it is not too loud. I don't want to be noticed.

When I am in the neighborhood, I keep a high gear and low RPM. When I am in town, the same! When I am near a LEO, same... When I am out in the country, I don't concern myself.

To be honest? I love the sound, I know I'm illegal in NH and I'm embarrassed around neighbors. Hence the P4 tip in hopes that it resolves this.

If it does not, it is back to uber-ugly and selling the Two Bros...

 

[shawn66mcl]

I have to agree with most on this topic that loud pipes don't save lives, riding skill is all you should rely on. Now with that being said, I like to tinker and being an engineer I understand the value of a good exhaust when it comes increasing hp and depending, better mpg's. I've asked before what the best exhaust is and got mixed responses.

I also live in a neighborhood where I'm the only person with a bike (sad, I know). Most people really like my bike and I've very respectful when I come cruising home late at night. I would not be able to do this with a loud exhaust, but would like to get just a little more sound out of my bike. Any suggestions on what pipes?

I would also like to add that I think the riders with superloud exhaust are part to blame for some of the bad press us bikers do get. On the other hand there have been times when I have almost run bikers off the road. Because I know, as we all do, what it's like to be cut off. I will admit in proper situations, loud pipes make you more noticeable but that's a rare case.

 

[nextfriday]

i'm new to riding streetbikes. Where i live, there are very few bikes on the road. With that said, when there is a loud "can" coming down the street be it from a slammed honda or R6, it gets your attention. Before i started riding I thought loud bikes were only about strutting your stuff. But i realize now that some riders are trying to make themselves as noticeable to others for safety sake. There might be that ONE time on the road when they can help avoid an accident. Loud cans are on my list.

 

[mercm3]

loud can's don't save lives, but neither do high viz helmets(at least the high viz part of it) or high viz jackets or those extra blinking brake lights. But they all help you get noticed, which I think is a good thing. None of these devices save lives, but all can help you get noticed and implying that doesn't help seems a bit close-minded.

 

[Tailgate]

I also think they're is such thing as too loud.

Regarding loud pipes, yeah, this is a good quote. Harley-Davidson would probably go out of business if police didn't look the other way regarding 50+ percent of their owners' exhaust. I mean, really, HD is a lot about image/sound---if you ask me. Can you imagine somebody riding around on a "normal" Harley. It's so much about having near-ridiculous loud exhaust. There's guy who commutes in our neighborhood at around 5:00 a.m many mornings and one can hear his bike probably a MILE away. It's excessive. It must be straight pipe with no baffles. It's not much different from a high school student driving around with his P.O.S. with no muffler. I think the Harley rider is being a clown because it's SO loud and he rides around 5:00 a.m as if it's nothing. I'm sure there are others who are annoyed by his big presentation every morning that he commutes. Do loud pipes help others notice? Yeah, probably but, geez, I imagine if cars had super loud exhaust that this would help others notice also. There's a limit, or should be...

 

[Kriswithak]

You wear safety gear for that one in a hundred, or thousand, or million, or zillion chance you will have an accident whether its your fault or not. Why can't a loud exhaust help for an equally likely or unlikely chance it will help.

Obviously a loud exhaust doesn't make you more 'visible' (why do people use this as an arguement, you can't see sound, its a moot point) whether it adds to your road presence on the other hand is another matter.

Personally I've had a few close calls with idiots on motorbikes doing VERY stupid things while I've been riding or driving, and only become aware of them because of their loud exhaust, they would have caused accidents otherwise, with acts like undercutting at corners in my lane, or going through red lights, trying to weave through traffic when there isn't actually room, etc.
You could argue that I wasn't aware enough in the first place not to see them coming from further away, but sometimes you just don't have the visibility in heavy traffic, particularly with the popular large 4wd vehicles every mother has to drive to ensure she can kill anyone she hits and get out without smudged makeup. Not to mention with people being forced to sit in blind spots even if its just for a second due to the flow of traffic.

I think people who argue that it CAN'T (this is an absolute term remember) make people more aware of you are being willfully ignorant.
If it stops one pedestrian from mindlessly stepping out between parked cars without checking first, or makes one person who would otherwise have cut you off without realising or pulled out without checking actually stop and notice you then yes it has helped, feel free to bring up the arguement you should be aware of people stepping out etc, but recently here in NSW we had a girl forget something when getting on her school bus, she got off walked around the front of the bus and stepped out directly in front of another bus. Needless to say she didn't survive, and there was absolutely nothing the other driver could have done without constantly driving at 5km/h. Educating the girl to cross properly would have helped but thats another arguement.

I have relatively keen hearing and can personally say that in heavy traffic especially with filtering bikes I often hear them before seeing them, and thats with me actively looking to make sure there is room for filterers to get past me, and to make sure I let them in if needed. I've also had instances with idiots on bikes doing something stupid and me only realising due to the sound of their loud exhaust alerting me to the fact they are doing something illogical, illegal and stupid (as stated above) - I guess its lucky the idiots always seem to have loud exhausts whether its in a car or on a bike, not that all people with loud exhausts are idiots despite what some people think

Not everyone uses their sense of hearing to enhance their driving or riding, or just their general awareness, although lets be serious most people probably already do it without even realising

I think its fair to say that if anyone actually did some research into this they could certainly prove that a loud exhaust makes people more aware of a vehicle on the road, but in todays day and age research generally proves whatever the person paying the cheques wants

**Note** As with everything there is a limit to what is accepteably loud, and I'd ask people argueing for the other side to avoid making generalisations assuming that loud refers to atrociously glass breakingly loud

 

[lonesoldier84]

simple answer to this debate:

if you are behind the cager....pipes dont make a difference.

if you are beside the cager...pipes make a slight difference.

if you are in front of the cager....pipes make a fair difference.

 

[fizz_off]

It may be just co-incidence, but I haven't had a cager pull into my lane on top of me since installing my Leo's.

As has been said, it may not SAVE your life, but I'll take any little bit of help that I can get to get stupid cagers to notice me.

Rely on your reflexes and general awareness to save your life, and everything will be great

:rockon:

Sorry (was trying to stay out of this one but...)...

For those of you who drive Rt 9 in MA you know what a clusterf#$k that road can be, especially near Framingham and Natick. I drive it for 28 miles each way to/from work.

I have my stock exhaust and I have NEVER had a cager pull out or into my lane "unexpectedly"; yes, they've pulled into my lane w/out signalling but *I* expected it and gave them the space to pull in w/o needing to make a sudden maneuver. That, along with riding according to conditions (as I also do in my pickup) and the local rules of the road, is what has kept me accident/close call free so far after 10K miles on the "fizzer"; not loud, eardrum splitting, unbaffled pipes/horn, not my bright yellow helmet, not my brightly colored reflective jacket and gear, not the lights and reflective tape on my top and side cases and strategic points on the frame and rims.

What's worked for me in maintaining that "expect the worst" mentality is what one of the registry people advised when I was getting my license and expressed some anxiety/skepticism on whether I was doing the right thing for my personal safety, given the crappy driving abilities of 98% of the people here in MA. He told me he rode a 19something-or-other Goldwing and now had "xxxxxxx" accident free miles and the one thing that helped him stay that way, "ALWAYS STAY VIGILANT AND EXPECT THE WORST FROM 2 CARS AROUND YOU". It works and has been working (for me) to date in all kinds of driving conditions (i.e., heavy stop/go taffic w/no "filtering", rain, cold, highway, remote country...)

The other thing I was taught (and try to drive/ride by) during my month of CDL prep. and also back to when I first go my drivers license in the '70s - "DRIVE DEFENSIVELY".

Yes, EVERYONE, including (yes, moi ) motorcyclists, does something STOOPID and careless more often than they care to admit. Expecting it is the only thing I believe has kept me accident and "close call" free since I started riding again.

 

[ozzieboy]

Useful debate this one.:thumbup:

I've rocked up to Silverback's house with Stumbles and Wolfman, both of whom have aftermarket pipes. Silverback was waiting out the front and told us he heard us coming for ages before we rocked up.

I usually drive with my windows down and I hear sirens, Harleys and loud exhausts coming. One of the reasons I drive with my windows down is hearing is one of my most important senses.

I have witnessed with my own eyes, people pulling over as far as they can in their lane when they hear Wolfman coming up behind them. This never happens to me with the stock exhaust.

Ditto for pedestrians, who will walk out in front of me with their head turned slightly away pretending they don't see me, so I have to brake hard and avoid them. With the loud pipes they turn their heads and don't walk....not because they can't hear or see me coming....it's more an attitude thing in this case.

If you are coming up on someone at a high rate of range change (you're going loads faster than they are) and overtake them then they won't hear you 'til the last instant but if you're not going nuts and moving up towards someone's blind spot at around 5,000-6,000 RPM with Two Bros on and they don't hear you coming they need their hearing checked. Also if you move up to the point of overtaking and then speed up to pass in the next lane so that you are not in the blind spot as long the loud exhaust will announce your presence.

However, you cannot rely on it as foolproof as with anything and if you go too fast in traffic it will not help.

I'll be able to be more definite soon, as I'll be getting aftermarket pipes this time around.:thumbup:

Cheers
Mike

 

[RJ2112]

It's personal preference. I don't feel the need to aggravate those around me.
In my case, the benefits do not outweigh the negatives.

I've owned bikes with aftermarket pipes, that would echo off of buildings and announce my presence for 1/2 mile or more..... loved the sound. Supertrapp 2 into 1 on an 800cc Vee twin.

I got more attention with those pipes. Mostly, that attention was of a negative type. LEOs included. Never got a ticket for the pipes, but I got more tickets on that bike after the pipes were installed than I did before hand. Having little kids cover their ears as I approached? A certain amount of perverse pleasure at that... but not enough to make me seek it out.

I've blipped the throttle to get a car to back off as it encroached..... it gets you in the habit of thinking you're right. That's not necessarily a good thing.

Justifying why you want loud pipes is a waste of time. You want them, buy them. Don't be surprised when all around you are not impressed.

.02

 

[Motogiro]

Have to thank RyanK for this fun and informative post. Also thanks to every one who has contributed to this. Seems everyone has shared thoughtful and useful information.
Okay....Now go out and play! Later, bring me a sandwich and a beer! LOL!

Really you folks are great!

Gort

 

[Shinn]

Here we go again... anyone else think this topic will never die?

It all works on accoustics and how sound travels in waves and such. Think of this. Why does an ambulance sound quiet coming towards you with it's lights on compared to after it has passed when it is much louder? All has to do with how sound travels. A car behind you will hear the pipes way louder than anyone in front of you. 9/10 times if traffic is moving, you won't hear a bike behind you.

Do loud pipes save lives? I can't agree or disagree. Most accidents happen from on coming traffic, turning left in front of you, and the number one cager excuse is such "I didn't see the bike", even if it had loud pipes. You be the judge.

 

[08-FZ6]

Maybe the voting option should have been "Can loud pipes HELP you get noticed"? I am suprised at all the responses saying that loud pipes will NOT benefit you in any way. Common sense tells me that loud pipes have the CHANCE to get you noticed where the stock pipes might not. Anyway, that is my 2 cents. I strongly believe that a louder exhaust can help your chances of getting noticed and maybe just maybe save your life. That being said, I hope that I am never in a situation where the sound of my exhaust will decide my fate but I do feel a little better knowing that more people might hear me coming. On a side not, I also love the way my Scorps sound.

 

[mercm3]

I've keep hearing examples regarding not hearing ambulance or fire sirens, there are plenty of times I have heard sirens coming from behind me, and i've pulled over for both ambulances and fire trucks. Shinn you are right it is much louder as it's passed me by but thats not the point, the point is I still heard it when it was behind me just not as loud but still noticable.

 

[RyanK]

LOUD PIPES COST MONEY!


$$
​

I would like to get a shirt made up with that phrase on it. I have nothing against loud pipes, in fact I want some myself but this is the only thing they really do for certain. Everytime I think about spending the money I realize what other more useful mods I could do and end up spending the money on those.

Here's one to think about:
But if you spend $500 for an exhaust that helped just 1 car notice your presence that avoided an accident, would they be worth it? Spending that $500-$1000 to avoid costly repairs to your body and your motorcycle, not to mention your pain, time missed from work, etc....and, dare I say it...possibly...your life?

 

[necrotimus]

I got loud exhaust just to annoy people and give bikers a bad name. When they ask what bike I am riding a say a suzuki because yamaha's are too quiet. Now they love yamahas and hate suzukis... suckers!!! This is the only reason to buy aftermarket exhaust, period.

 

[RyanK]

Just a quick not to say thanks to y'all who are responding. This is much bigger & more civil than I imagined. Keep 'em coming...

I'm not trying to start a war, just get people thinking. My intent isn't that they necessarily "save" lives, but help to avoid accidents. If you avoid an accident (which you may not ever even be aware of!), how can you argue that you "could" save a life...

 

[cap'n]

Just popping in quickly to say:

- Voted "no," but those 2 options present a false choice. The truth as I see it is "both" but to varying degrees.
- I see louder pipes as helping a tiny bit in the right circumstances with someone hearing me, if I had them, but mostly little-to-none. So that little bit is worth it, right?
- (my 2 cents) Wrong. Those same loud pipes also annoy the piss out my fine, fine neighbors, with whom I am fortunate enough to have a wonderful relationship, and who are undoubtedly judging all of motorcycledom by my actions. Ditto most of the other drivers on the road. You may think that annoying them for some tiny negligible bump in your safety is worth it, but I do not. I have weighed it out, and as much as I'd like to hear something a lil' bit more manly everytime I crack the throttle open, it's more important to me not to give drivers another reason to dislike bikers (alongside wheelies on public roads, cutting in and out of lanes dangerously, etc).



And as has been said, this is one of those things that I don't think anyone is going to read about and change their mind on, if they've already made it up (and more likely, have already bought loud exhausts - you guys are converts for life, I'm sure.)

 

[MG-242]

Just popping in quickly to say:

- Voted "no," but those 2 options present a false choice. The truth as I see it is "both" but to varying degrees.
- I see louder pipes as helping a tiny bit in the right circumstances with someone hearing me, if I had them, but mostly little-to-none. So that little bit is worth it, right?
- (my 2 cents) Wrong. Those same loud pipes also annoy the piss out my fine, fine neighbors, with whom I am fortunate enough to have a wonderful relationship, and who are undoubtedly judging all of motorcycledom by my actions. Ditto most of the other drivers on the road. You may think that annoying them for some tiny negligible bump in your safety is worth it, but I do not. I have weighed it out, and as much as I'd like to hear something a lil' bit more manly everytime I crack the throttle open, it's more important to me not to give drivers another reason to dislike bikers (alongside wheelies on public roads, cutting in and out of lanes dangerously, etc).



And as has been said, this is one of those things that I don't think anyone is going to read about and change their mind on, if they've already made it up (and more likely, have already bought loud exhausts - you guys are converts for life, I'm sure.)

Agreed. Generally speaking, motorcyclists have a pretty negative image and loud pipes and irresponsible behaviour doesn't help our cause. Keep in mind most everyone has a chance to vote and someone who you may have PO'd, may be voting on an issue that has a negative impact on us.

IMO, if you are depending on loud pipes to save you, you're already in trouble. Again, IMO, the money is better spent on conspicuity items.

But, my favorite t-shirt states "Loud clutches Save Lives!" BTW, I have a Duc also .

 

[RJ2112]

Here's one to think about:
But if you spend $500 for an exhaust that helped just 1 car notice your presence that avoided an accident, would they be worth it? Spending that $500-$1000 to avoid costly repairs to your body and your motorcycle, not to mention your pain, time missed from work, etc....and, dare I say it...possibly...your life?

What's your hearing worth? Constant exposure to loud noise is extremely tiring, as well as beating the cr*p out of your ear drums. Just another talley item on the cost/risk analysis....

If you really think a loud pipe is going to get a driver's attention, spend the money (a lot less) on a really loud horn.... that way, it's only loud when you need it to be. spend the rest of what you save, on taking some advanced training so you can actually use the bike to it's fullest.

Accident avoidance is so much more about seeing and predicting the future movements of the vehicles around you, than it is about blaring noise at everyone all the time.

Similar to having gas. One little toot is a whole heck of a lot more socially acceptable, than constantly breaking wind......