2004 fz6

[shadowmansm]

Hello everyone!

My first post here, though I have been visiting the forum for some time now.

I bought a used fz6 a couple months ago and it ran well (for the most part) up until a couple days ago.

I was coming around a low speed turn near my house when an animal ran out in the road, I had to swerve and subsequently laid the bike down on the right side. I recieved no injuries and there were no animals harmed. :thumbup: ...though I wish people would keep their animals to themselves!! :spank:

Anyhow, the bike would not start afterwards. Two days passed and it still would not start.

Here are the things I have tried and tested:

Fuel pump/filter is good.
Drained fuel/lines, replaced with new fuel (~2 gal)
Side stand sensor bypassed.
Air filter not new but decent.
Fall cutoff sensor good.
Battery/connections good.
Throttle Bodies synced a couple weeks ago.
TPS reading correctly.
ECU sending fuel into fuel rail/lines.
All connections/hoses under seat good.
All fuses have been checked and good.
Tried turning the idle up/down.
Tried to get diag codes, none present (or i'm doing it wrong)... thought it was just select/reset for 8 sec and then select to view?


Here is what happens since my work:

Now the bike will start (very low rpm) and idle for anywhere from a couple seconds to a min or two. After that the bike just dies. If I try to give the bike throttle, it just dies.

If I spray some throttle body cleaner in the air intake, the bike will rev up AND will let me rev the throttle but then dies after a sec or so even with the throttle open.. just sputters a little and dies.

My guess/question:

Could this be clogged fuel injector(s), would that cause the bike to do this, and could injector(s) act like this after a (minor) accident?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. This is my daily driver as my best friend uses my car daily. I hope I can fix this myself as I am broke as a joke that isn't funny!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[trepetti]

Hello everyone!

My first post here, though I have been visiting the forum for some time now.

I bought a used fz6 a couple months ago and it ran well (for the most part) up until a couple days ago.

I was coming around a low speed turn near my house when an animal ran out in the road, I had to swerve and subsequently laid the bike down on the right side. I recieved no injuries and there were no animals harmed. :thumbup: ...though I wish people would keep their animals to themselves!! :spank:

Anyhow, the bike would not start afterwards. Two days passed and it still would not start.

Here are the things I have tried and tested:

Fuel pump/filter is good.
Drained fuel/lines, replaced with new fuel (~2 gal)
Side stand sensor bypassed.
Air filter not new but decent.
Fall cutoff sensor good.
Battery/connections good.
Throttle Bodies synced a couple weeks ago.
TPS reading correctly.
ECU sending fuel into fuel rail/lines.
All connections/hoses under seat good.
All fuses have been checked and good.
Tried turning the idle up/down.
Tried to get diag codes, none present (or i'm doing it wrong)... thought it was just select/reset for 8 sec and then select to view?


Here is what happens since my work:

Now the bike will start (very low rpm) and idle for anywhere from a couple seconds to a min or two. After that the bike just dies. If I try to give the bike throttle, it just dies.

If I spray some throttle body cleaner in the air intake, the bike will rev up AND will let me rev the throttle but then dies after a sec or so even with the throttle open.. just sputters a little and dies.

My guess/question:

Could this be clogged fuel injector(s), would that cause the bike to do this, and could injector(s) act like this after a (minor) accident?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. This is my daily driver as my best friend uses my car daily. I hope I can fix this myself as I am broke as a joke that isn't funny!

Thanks,
Matthew

It all comes down to air, fuel and spark. Your test with the throttle body cleaner confirms that it is fuel related, and I am thinking fuel pressure. If you don't have a service manual, get it here:

Boneman's FZ6 Site - Mods

Look over the fuel lines for an kinks or pinches as a start....

 

[shadowmansm]

...thanks trepetti, that is what I am thinking as well.

So, essentially, it probably is the (clogged?) fuel injectors because the lines are clear all the way to the injectors (I checked the fuel rail).

Would it be advisable to buy new injectors or get these professionally cleaned? Or even better yet, could I clean them myself (links)?

...anyone else concur or have something to add?

 

[trepetti]

...thanks trepetti, that is what I am thinking as well.

So, essentially, it probably is the (clogged?) fuel injectors because the lines are clear all the way to the injectors (I checked the fuel rail).

Would it be advisable to buy new injectors or get these professionally cleaned? Or even better yet, could I clean them myself (links)?

...anyone else concur or have something to add?

I am a little leery of a low speed fall causing 4 injectors to nearly fully clog. While it is possible, I am still thinking fuel pressure. I assume that you her the fuel pump charge the fuel system when you turn the key, and if you do that the sound is normal. I wonder if there is a lot of crud in the tank and the fall got it all floating again, possible clogging the fuel filter in the tank?

 

[shadowmansm]

Yes, the fuel pump can be heard.. and I have cleaned everything up till the fuel injectors. The inside of the tank looks clean, no rust or grime. I even completely emptied it to make sure fuel/water was not the issue. I looked over the fuel filter and it seemed to be quite clean.

Furthermore, I disassembled afterwards to make sure that fuel was reaching the fuel injectors (which it is).

I also did not expect this from a low speed low-side. Hopefully we can get some more opinions... till then, thanks trepetti.

What would happen if only one (two or three) injector(s) is clogged, run rough, misfire, die?

 

[Db52280]

Could it be the roll over sensor or valve located near the tank? Could it be stuck?

 

[shadowmansm]

Not roll over sensor. Bike will not turn over at all if disconnected.

What valve by the tank are you referring to, the overflow.. which is good btw, checked.

Thanks Db52280.

 

[Db52280]

On the yamaha parts explosion it showed a roll over valve item 29' View attachment 53042

 

[shadowmansm]

Ok, I was confusing the sensor with the valve. I do not believe that to be the problem as I get nice flow to the injectors.

Thanks Db52280

 

[7UPyours]

I don't have much to add since you have already replaced fuel with fresh fuel, buy every time I had very similar running issues with my snowblower, lawn mower or gas trimmer putting fresh fuel did solve my running issues. I'm def keeping an eye on this thread

 

[FinalImpact]

Sounds like you have no fuel pressure.

As Trepetti pointed out, there was likely something lifted from the tanks bottom and placed into circulation. If I had to guess, It seems like the pressure regulator has some debris stuck in it and its simply dumping all the fuel internally in the tank instead of building pressure.

It looks like you must have had the assembly out;

End view, expand these locks to remove pressure regulator:

Pressure Regulator: FZ6 set at 36 PSI:

One option to prove this before pulling it down is to disconnect the line at the tank so as to bypass the lines check valve that blocks the fuel when its unplugged from the fuel rail and place a straight hose on the pumps outlet (with a clamp of course). Run this into containment of some kind. Power the pump up and place a thumb over the outlet.
** OBVIOUSLY THE FUEL IS VERY FLAMMABLE AND YOU ARE AT RISK ** Take precautions to prevent sparks, control where any sprayed fuel goes and have a plan if something goes wrong.

The FSM mentions nothing of fuel volume but it should produce a solid stream of fuel. And it may do this and **look OK** until you plug and attempt to produce pressure.

The lines outlet should build pressure. If its near 36 PSI, you can hold this back with your thumb and some effort. Although a BETTER option is to connect your hose directly to pressure gauge. An automotive mechanical oil pressure gauge will work. Use hose clamps! Again, it should build 36 PSI. If it does NOT and the pump runs/shoots a stream you'll need to pull the pump assembly again and clean the PR.

My theory goes like this. Something in the tank got loose when it tipped. It went through the filter and because the pump is cable of 60 ~ 90 PSI its always pushing fuel through the pressure regulator (opportunity for debris to get stuck here) and dumping it internally in the tank. Once debris is under the seat of the valve it ALWAYS LEAKS and never builds pressure.
Clean the valve and you fix it. :thumbup:

Its just plastic tabs to open and remove the PR. See post # 2 here for more details. http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...mpact-trouble-shooting-maintenance-guide.html

 

[FinalImpact]

...thanks trepetti, that is what I am thinking as well.

So, essentially, it probably is the (clogged?) fuel injectors because the lines are clear all the way to the injectors (I checked the fuel rail).

Would it be advisable to buy new injectors or get these professionally cleaned? Or even better yet, could I clean them myself (links)?

...anyone else concur or have something to add?

I don't think all of the injectors plugged at once. I would stand down any further disassembly of anything after the fuel pump.

However, one thing does come to mind that is a possibility. If the wires too the fuel pump have been compromised and can not deliver enough current to the pump it will stall and not build pressure.

With a hand held DMM you should see battery voltage at the pump when the motor is running. Those are waterproof connectors so measuring voltage there could be a pain. But you should be able to slip a single strand of wire into the coupler and let it hang out, then plug it together or find a very thin wire and shove it past the rubber in the connector here.

FZ6 Fuel Pump and Fuel Sender Connections:
The WHITE connector w/ Green/white trace is for the fuel level sensor and the GREEN connector w/ Red/Light Blue trace for the fuel pump (larger gauge). Black wires are chassis ground on both connections.

 

[shadowmansm]

Thanks for all the detail and advice FinalImpact!

I will perform the tasks as outlined and reply back with the results. I will def. be doing this before messing with the injectors as that is expensive!

 

[shadowmansm]

How/where to get fuel pressure regulator cleaned?

Can one be purchased (part number please)?

 

[FinalImpact]

How/where to get fuel pressure regulator cleaned?

Can one be purchased (part number please)?

See how its open on one end? Just push inward and look for chunks stuck in the seat that would allow it to leak. The O-ring side next to the pump body should hold pressure up to 36 PSI.

If it doesn't and the spring is broke, seat is damaged, or something else is wrong with it, used from another member or a whole new pump assembly is the only option I know of.

Also, if its found to be the pump motor itself, I'd grab one on fleebay and see where you land. $36 bucks or $250 and up for whole new/used assembly. If you have an air compressor you can back flow the pump and sometimes blow debris out.

On that note if you have an air compressor and it has a pressure regulator, set it to 25 PSI and using a rubber tipped air nozzle, seat it to the O-ring side of the PR valve. At 25 PSI it should hold pressure. At 30 PSI it should hold. Although don't bank a non-calibrated gauge to read accurate withing +/-10 PSI. Especailly if the vessel goes up to 130 PSI, as the low side numbers could be off a long ways.

Obviously at 50 PSI you should blow the needle off the seat and blow any chunks out of the PR valve.

DO you have the pump out?

 

[shadowmansm]

I purchased a new fuel pump from eBay @ $35 shipped. :thumbup:

The part was a 08 Yamaha R6r fuel pump. The pump had a broken output nozzle but since this is a DIRECT replacement, I was able to use the output cover/nozzle from my old pump. Snapped my old fuel float on the side (R6r has a different fuel float system) and the bike started right up!

Furthermore, since all of this my gas gauge now reads correctly (used to only read one bar) and the bike as a whole feels more powerful than before. I am thinking that you were right on the money FinalImpact with suggesting the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Thanks for all the help! :rockon:

P.S. Going to look into why the old pump is no bueno, at least now I have a spare for parts (minus the FPR).