8 years with MSF, 3 years of coaching.. and this is the funniest thing to date!

payneib

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Our program is funded by a $6 fee attached to our license plates (used to be $4) plus we now charge $50 to take the class. It used to be free and people would abuse it and not show up. Then, it went to $25. Other Dept of Transportation Safety programs tried to steal our funds and they raised it to $50. Still a bargain in my mind.

Daft question from a stupid Limey:

What are the actual licence requirements for you guys in the states?

Cause we have to do a full set of two tests, at varying stages on different sized bikes (17: 125cc 19: restricted to 49bhp 21/24: unrestricted, test must be done on 600cc or bigger) or just wait until you're 24 and do the big one. Each course is about 2 and a half days training, and including test fees is about £500 (so around $700?)

From what I've overheard, you can pretty much rock up to a dealership in the states with a car licence and a credit card and just hop onto any sized death machine you want, and all the MSF courses etc are optional? Is that true? Cause comparing the cost of the two, $50 is a right bargain! Why would people NOT do it?! Lol
 

PosterFZ6

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Daft question from a stupid Limey:

What are the actual licence requirements for you guys in the states?

Cause we have to do a full set of two tests, at varying stages on different sized bikes (17: 125cc 19: restricted to 49bhp 21/24: unrestricted, test must be done on 600cc or bigger) or just wait until you're 24 and do the big one. Each course is about 2 and a half days training, and including test fees is about £500 (so around $700?)

From what I've overheard, you can pretty much rock up to a dealership in the states with a car licence and a credit card and just hop onto any sized death machine you want, and all the MSF courses etc are optional? Is that true? Cause comparing the cost of the two, $50 is a right bargain! Why would people NOT do it?! Lol

Yup, it's pretty much that easy.

You still don't take into the account people's laziness and general desire not to be hassled.

Also why does UK hate freedom? ;p
 

payneib

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Also why does UK hate freedom? ;p

There was this war about 200 years ago.......some dirty little colonists, in some minor, forgettable part of the empire started kicking off......;) lol

As an aside, this was actually one point (I think the only time) that the UK government was actually on our side. It was the EU that decided bikers didn't get enough training.

If it were up to the EU we'd do:

Compulsory Basic Training (a days training) on a 50cc at 16, before doing the theory test and a full set of licence tests. (You're looking at £100 for the CBT, £35 for the theory and £500 for the full tests. So £635, if you pass first time)
Then do the full licence tests on a 125 at 17 (another £500)
Do the tests again on a 49bhp bike at 19 (another £500)
Then again after two years (21) or when your 24 (so another £500).

Doing it properly, the full "A" licence should actually cost £2135 (~$3000?). And the UK government, quiet rightly, said it would just push people to wait till they're 24 and do it once, but not build any experience on the smaller bikes before they get there.
 

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Daft question from a stupid Limey:

What are the actual licence requirements for you guys in the states?

Cause we have to do a full set of two tests, at varying stages on different sized bikes (17: 125cc 19: restricted to 49bhp 21/24: unrestricted, test must be done on 600cc or bigger) or just wait until you're 24 and do the big one. Each course is about 2 and a half days training, and including test fees is about £500 (so around $700?)

From what I've overheard, you can pretty much rock up to a dealership in the states with a car licence and a credit card and just hop onto any sized death machine you want, and all the MSF courses etc are optional? Is that true? Cause comparing the cost of the two, $50 is a right bargain! Why would people NOT do it?! Lol

When it comes to motorcycle licensing, the laws vary state by state. For example, in Florida, MSF course is now required.

In NJ, there is now tiered licensing (this law is only a few years old). You can go directly to motor vehicle commission and take the riding test (which is not very difficult). If you do it on a bike 230cc or smaller, you are limited to a 500cc motorcycle. If you take the MSF course, you get unrestricted license.
 

aclayonb

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Indiana - stop by the license branch with your drivers license and pass a 25 question test. You get your permit which allows you to legally ride for a year so long as you wear a helmet and only ride during daylight hours. No passengers.

If you take the MSF course, you can walk in and get your motorcycle license for a minor fee. Or, after at least 3 months, you can go in and take the rather difficult riding test administered by a disgrunted member of the license branch that will fail you several times just because they can.

I opted for the MSF.

But the answer to your primary question is: We can get a permit and jump on any death-rocket we want with no restrictions, all in the same day. I got a permit and my VTX1300c all in the same day. Never even sat on a bike before. We're pretty much free to kill ourselves any way we want as long as we don't use a gun or prescription meds.

The main problem we're fighting against in my State, as far as riders starting on smaller bikes, is that pretty much everyone that is seen on less than 500cc's is assumed to be a drunk (with no license), a girl, or a coward. Men in Indiana haven't figured out that you can ride a bike for fun without being a criminal biker gang member or a professional racer. I'm rebuilding an old CB350 right now and I get asked all the time if I'm giving it to my kid. Nevermind that it can do almost 100mph with me on it. It's not even a 600... is it a starter bike for your wife?
 
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In Ohio, the MSF course is required for all 16-17 yr olds to get their license. But, at age 15 1\2 you can get a 'permit' that allows you to ride solo, with a helmet and not on "congested" (Interstates?) highways. Age 18 and above can get a discount on their insurance (not all insurance companies play) with the MSF class. Also, we, MSF coaches, fill the role of an examiner and by passing our BRC, we give a card that you can take to the BMV and get your endorsement. Our state test given by state examiners, ie not MSF coaches, is very similar to the MSF BRC skills test, but not exactly.

Most motorcycle shops that I know will not let you demo a bike without an endorsement (no permits). But, I'm guessing that if you lay down cash for a bike, they'll let you ride out on it without checking. Not 100% on that.

Personally, I wish we had a tiered licensing like some other countries. There is nothing to prevent a 16 yo with her license from going in and purchasing a 200hp GSCBRZXRRRR.
 

MG-242

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We have a professional code of conduct that we must adhere to, we must wear gear, zero alcohol, no points on our records or very little wiggle room, maybe for a couple, etc.

In Ohio we are only required to wear all the gear when riding to or from a class. Even then, and you'll have to guess what brand they ride, I know of instructors who do not wear helmets except when conducting demos in a class. :Flash:
I think we can have something like up to 6 pts on our license before they revoke our teaching cert. i'm pretty sure a DUI would get you kicked out.
 

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I think we can have something like up to 6 pts on our license before they revoke our teaching cert. i'm pretty sure a DUI would get you kicked out.

In NJ, DUI or 4 points and you're out.

Interesting about the test. I know BRC test is the same in all states, but I guess motor vehicle test varies because in NJ it takes place on a lot that is less than 1/4 of the size of MSF's full range. There is no swerve or quick stop on their test.
 

motojoe122

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In NJ, DUI or 4 points and you're out.

Interesting about the test. I know BRC test is the same in all states, but I guess motor vehicle test varies because in NJ it takes place on a lot that is less than 1/4 of the size of MSF's full range. There is no swerve or quick stop on their test.
When I took my test on the FZ, I remember doing the swerve and quick stop. This was just over 3 years ago unless it has changed since then. I took my test in Mays Landing DMV.
 

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When I took my test on the FZ, I remember doing the swerve and quick stop. This was just over 3 years ago unless it has changed since then. I took my test in Mays Landing DMV.

Hmm.. looks like you're right. Swerve and quick stop are included: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkKffciS290]NJ DMV Motorcycle Road Test - YouTube[/ame]
 

motojoe122

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Hmm.. looks like you're right. Swerve and quick stop are included: NJ DMV Motorcycle Road Test - YouTube

I remember it because it was the day I found out just how quick the FZ was in 1st gear and how fast it would stop. Keep in mind, I only had 21 days (min. 20 before you can take the riding test) on the street at the time.

Foot down twice and stalled on one of the 90deg. turns......SOOOO thought I had failed.
 

aclayonb

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Man, I don't remember doing anything like that. In Indiana, they come out and make sure you have lots of chrome and really loud pipes. As long as the bike looks good parked and you have a story about how much the bike costs, you're set.

Seriously though, I took the MSF and it was nowhere near that detailed. I remember doing a sweeping left, sweeping right, panic braking, and a slalom that was big enough to drive a truck through. It might only have felt big because I was on a Honda 125 but still.... that moped did a ton more difficult things than we ever had to do. I'd never ridden before and it was too easy.
 

2nd childhood

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When I took the test here in Washington way back in 1973 or 74 (can't remember for sure, it was so long ago), it was pretty basic, with stop & go, slalom and such. I got a 95/100, with 5 points deducted when I had to go down and back in a straight line as slow as I could. I was on a buddy's new Honda XL250 (my Kawaski 250 F4 ran too crappy to take the test) and let it idle in 1st gear down and back. He said it was too fast and I should have braked and/or feathered the clutch. But whatever, I passed! In those days you were then licensed to ride any size bike. They later went to size "classes" (grandfathering in previous riders) but later changed again and now have only two endorsements, one for a bike 50cc or bigger and the other for trikes.
 

payneib

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This is the "map" for the Module One Test:


null_zps92dc5d2c.jpg


It starts off with riding into the green box. Then pushing the bike out backwards, around into another bay. Then a slalom and figure of eights. Slow ride and controlled stop. Then a U turn. You then do a controlled cornering and stop run (big loop, "at speed"), then an emergency stop, then an avoidance manoeuvre.

Once you've passed that, you're qualified to take your road test, being followed by an accessor for about 45 mins to an hour. It's got hill starts, various traffic conditions, etc, etc.

And they want baby bikers to do both tests, at various ages, on increasingly bigger bikes! As a side note, slaloms and other slow speed stuff are so much easier on a big bike: they just want to stand up, and just need a little nudge to get around the cones.
 

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This is the "map" for the Module One Test:


null_zps92dc5d2c.jpg


It starts off with riding into the green box. Then pushing the bike out backwards, around into another bay. Then a slalom and figure of eights. Slow ride and controlled stop. Then a U turn. You then do a controlled cornering and stop run (big loop, "at speed"), then an emergency stop, then an avoidance manoeuvre.

Once you've passed that, you're qualified to take your road test, being followed by an accessor for about 45 mins to an hour. It's got hill starts, various traffic conditions, etc, etc.

And they want baby bikers to do both tests, at various ages, on increasingly bigger bikes! As a side note, slaloms and other slow speed stuff are so much easier on a big bike: they just want to stand up, and just need a little nudge to get around the cones.

Nice!! Would love to know dimensions of those tests. Like how wide the U-turn area is and spacing between cones for slalom.

Our emergency brake test is done at ~17mph.
 

Erci

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payneib

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MSF u-turn is actually a bit tougher then. The box is 20 feet in width.

The major difference being, that ours is mandatory. You can make it as hard as you like, but if people can opt out, what's the point? I honestly don't know how you "sensible" (well, ish lol) riders and instructors do what you do over there, when every day there's just more and more people making the case for bikers worse and worse, because they can, due to lack of control by those in charge.
 
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