Autotune is throwing code 43 and 46 and causing pump to prime continuously.

[FinalImpact]

The pump and coils have power at all times unless they are interrupted by safety protocol. This means that if the ECU shuts off the pump it kills the coils at the same time. Once the fuel pressure is reached the pump shuts off. When the injectors are operated, fuel pressure drops and the pump pressure regulator allows current to flow. Voltage is constantly present. So although current is zero at the pump the potential is always present unless the key, kill switch, or safety tells the ECU to open the relay to the fuel pump and ignition coils.



Sent from Moto's Motorola

I hear you but I don't agree on all points.

The pump and coils have power at all times unless they are interrupted by safety protocol. This means that if the ECU shuts off the pump it kills the coils at the same time.

Mostly agree. There is the safety protocol for shut down but based upon some testing I did, I think it may time out and wait for the crank to spin to conserve energy. Its just ones and zeros in the ECU (digital realm) so this is possible.

Using the same logic, its not going to squirt fuel on an engine thats not being rotated, so why power the injectors at all. Point: we have fuel pressure, now lets wait for the crank to spin - whether from the button or rolling it down a hill, we wait until movement is detected at the crankshaft and then TURN THE Injector/Pump again!

Once the fuel pressure is reached the pump shuts off. When the injectors are operated, fuel pressure drops and the pump pressure regulator allows current to flow.

The pressure regulator is just an overpressure dump valve. If pump pressure exceeds the springs rating, fuel is dumped inside the tank and pressure drops before the pump stalls (current gets too high).
- So, the ECU could detect current or voltage and sense the pumps load, but it has no idea of the pumps/fuel rail pressure. There is no pressure sensor on the pressure side of the pump.

Voltage is constantly present. So although current is zero at the pump the potential is always present unless the key, kill switch, or safety tells the ECU to open the relay to the fuel pump and ignition coils.

IDK! I've never measured it. Its possible. It all depends what they used (circuit; IC/logic dependent) as to the outcome. That said; the fuel and ignition are separate (sorta). The black box does some magic. All we know is if we want it off now, the RED switch kills power to the ignition coils and it stops, even if the ecm is giving the green light to keep on keeping on...

If I were to measure it, I'll hedge my bet that there is no need to power the injectors if the crank is not spinning. It is the ONE sensor that STOPS the bike dead in its tracks if the signal is not proper or present. Most others have fail safe defaults that allow limp home in crippled fashion.

IMO - there is no reason to power the injectors if the engine is not rotating. So, digital logic being what it is, its pretty easy to turn off the injectors and wait for the crank to spin. How long is the question!

Based upon my own experience where I removed the fuel tank which allowed air into the fuel system, I believe the processor is checking the load on the pump as "pump on times" can vary.

That's my best guess! But we could beat it with a Hamster because its electrical! Blah

 

[Motogiro]

Totally agree with your experience on the crank sensor being the key to tell ECU to unload the fuel pump and injection coils when there is no signal.
When we talk about the op's problem of fuel pump continuously running when fuel management is applied as opposed not, I agree it could be the ECU keeping the pump on based on your tests and not as a continuous as I was thinking.


Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[foxhounddown]

Well I took the voltage reading at the fuel pump and it stayed at 12.2v whether or not the autotune was connected. And the 2.5 amp draw was with the autotune by itself. I tried measuring the amp draw when the autotune and pcv were connected and it blew the fuse on my multimeter so it could be the PCV.

I tried something along the lines of what you said. I disconnected the PCV and just hooked up the autotune. No code thrown so I assume it's good. I connected the PCV and autotune and code 43 reappeared. Then I connected the PCV (I kept one of the connections inline, but not the connection which powers the PCV) and autotune and everything was fine.

I'm guessing that the time the ignition fuse blew, the PCV was damaged internally. The reason I think this happened is because the autotune will power the PCV when it's not getting power via the injectors so perhaps low resistance? It could be that the voltage doesn't drop significantly until the autotune is added into the equation. It might also explain why only code 43 displays now that I have a new autotune module and it'd explain why it blew the multimeter fuse once everything was inline.

 

[FinalImpact]

OK - that is GOOD information that the pump voltages stays above 11V.

If I understand this correctly, the PCV and the Autotune both have their own power supply. So where exactly are you tapping power and ground from? Take a look at this pdf. Not the same guys but the same theory applies -->> Not Starting PDF

As best I can tell the wire that feeds the pump and injectors is being sensed for load. If the load is excessive, the ECU throws flag.

This is where I am unable to connect the dots and make sense of this issue; The PCV is a piggyback module to the OEM Injector duty cycle. Their combined function provides the injectors their on time/off time to fuel the engine. The complication is this: It appears to run without issues on the PCV which is tied into the Injectors WHICH IS LOAD SENSED and its OK when its alone (w/out Autotune Module (ATM).
- Yet adding the ATM induces too much load. That makes it sound like its wired wrong or the PC5 itself has an issue.

 

[foxhounddown]

Yes they each have their own power supply. The PCV gets power through the injectors, and the autotune gets power from the taillight wire. Both have a separate ground wire, which I had connected to the negative battery post.

It does seem like the autotune module introduces too much load, as everything else seems fine when it's not connected. The autotune connected by itself to the FZ6 was causing the codes before it was replaced but now it only causes the code when it's connected to the PCV.

However another odd thing that I noticed is that if i connect the autotune after the bike has started, it won't throw a code. It'll only throw a code if its connected and then the battery is switched to ON. I checked with dynojet and they confirmed that the autotune module is a new module, not a repaired one.

 

[FinalImpact]

I didn't realize the PC-v power source was the injector power. That **could explain** the loss. As in; if something is wrong with either module it could source MORE CURRENT through the injectors power supply than is available.

Do note that the ECU clamps the its RED and GREEN wires to ground to trigger the injectors to fire.

Did you ever ever unplug and LOOK at the ECU connection?
It's really looking like the modules, one or both of them have a fault. Because these devices are hand wired, I'd be verifying all connections are proper.

 

[foxhounddown]

I thought for some reason the bazzaz was also powered through the injectors. The ecu connections all looked fine. I'm pretty sure now that the PCV is the issue. When the ignition fuse blew I'm thinking both modules were damaged. the autotune was replaced with a new one so that solves half the problem.

If you mean the connections that the buyer has to make, those are all wired correctly. I made sure of it and looked through the manuals again. No exposed wiring at the tips either, and I had checked the continuity from the module to the end connection at the connectors.

 

[FinalImpact]

Bazzaz has its own supply - that piggyback fuse I added. It does power both devices tho.

Overall I used one posi tap into the neutral indicator. Other than that, everything was direct plug in.

I'd see if i could get an RMA to have all components verified. Print out the detail of the error codes and send it with.

 

[Motogiro]

Yes they each have their own power supply. The PCV gets power through the injectors, and the autotune gets power from the taillight wire. Both have a separate ground wire, which I had connected to the negative battery post.

It does seem like the autotune module introduces too much load, as everything else seems fine when it's not connected. The autotune connected by itself to the FZ6 was causing the codes before it was replaced but now it only causes the code when it's connected to the PCV.

However another odd thing that I noticed is that if i connect the autotune after the bike has started, it won't throw a code. It'll only throw a code if its connected and then the battery is switched to ON. I checked with dynojet and they confirmed that the autotune module is a new module, not a repaired one.

Are you sure the PCV is powered off the injectors? The injectors are a pulse signal and the pulse varies in frequency and width, I would think the PCV needs a steady voltage source!

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ install instructions are pretty lame.... --> Install DJ PC-v FZ6
But it looks that way.
It is getting a switched source of battery power. As stated, the ecu is simply clamping one side to ground to fire them, but the +input is there for the taking, so its consuming some of that energy to run its logic and switching...

 

[Motogiro]

^^ install instructions are pretty lame.... --> Install DJ PC-v FZ6
But it looks that way.
It is getting a switched source of battery power. As stated, the ecu is simply clamping one side to ground to fire them, but the +input is there for the taking, so its consuming some of that energy to run its logic and switching...

Yes it should be the powered side of the injectors and fuel pump. As long as it's not a lot of added current that line is probably okay. I don't imagine it needs much additional current. It is now looking like the PCV is bad as well...

 

[Motogiro]

However another odd thing that I noticed is that if i connect the autotune after the bike has started, it won't throw a code. It'll only throw a code if its connected and then the battery is switched to ON.

That's interesting.... the headlamp circuit does not power on until the engine has started so maybe try to use the headlight signal of the headlamp relay so that it comes on after. There's plenty of current on that line.

 

[foxhounddown]

That's interesting.... the headlamp circuit does not power on until the engine has started so maybe try to use the headlight signal of the headlamp relay so that it comes on after. There's plenty of current on that line.

Just tried this right now. It works for getting away w/o the checking engine light turning on but, as expected, code 43 will reappear if I kill the motor with the killswitch instead of the key as the headlight stays on.

I just contacted dynojet again to see if they can test the power commander. Hopefully this will remove all doubt on the issues. I know I can run it like this but I'd rather not risk other electrical failures down the road because of it.

 

[FinalImpact]

Just tried this right now. It works for getting away w/o the checking engine light turning on but, as expected, code 43 will reappear if I kill the motor with the killswitch instead of the key as the headlight stays on.

I just contacted dynojet again to see if they can test the power commander. Hopefully this will remove all doubt on the issues. I know I can run it like this but I'd rather not risk other electrical failures down the road because of it.

Any updates? Are they playing nicely?

 

[foxhounddown]

Any updates? Are they playing nicely?

It's odd. It has been fine but a few times I've had the key in the ON position with both headlights off and it still throws code 43. It happens randomly. I'm just gonna leave as is because I did contact dynojet a while back and from the sounds of our conversation, they think that i'm doing something wrong or its my wiring.

From my experience I'd leave the PCV as the culprit but I'll just leave as is and call in for the warranty if it pops the ignition fuse again or something like that happens.