Electrical Issue (not enough power?)

[Pittmania]

I did test the battery voltage (not while running, though) before removing and replacing. Was somewhere around 11.5v.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I did test the battery voltage (not while running, though) before removing and replacing. Was somewhere around 11.5v.

Just an FYI, 11.5 volts is between 25%-50% charged.

 

[Taz3]

Damn... thought my battery was fine and was leaning towards a stator issue. My story:

Dual headlight mod done by previous owner.
15t front sprocket

Riding north early Sat morning to photograph my cousin's wedding. Averaging 100kph, which means over 5k rpm with the smaller front sprocket. Opening her up a bit , dropping gears to pass and for some open stretches, easily hitting 7-9k rpm for short bursts. Traveling with (both) high beams on. First real ride of the season, battery had been uninstalled and connected to an OptiMate3 smart charger for a couple days previous to this, was shoing that it was charged and ready to go. About 1.5hrs in to the ride, dash starts flickering. I'm quite the newb mechanically, didn't know what that meant, pulled over and turned it off to check my fuilds and whatnot. Truck I just passed pulled over, helped me investigate, told me it was probably the battery dead. He push started me, I turned off my brights and was fine for q little while. Turned brights back on, dash started flashing again, so turned them back off and was fine again. Photographed the wedding, was there about 4 hours, bike started no problem and rode home with no brights and had no issues.

Couple weeks or so later took it in for an inspection and tune up (previous owner seems not to have done 30k km service and I was around 32k km). Mentioned headlight/charge/battery issue. When I was picking it up, asked mechanic, he forgot to check it. He pulled out a voltmeter and checked it there with me with bike running. His meter showed a green light for charge, yellow for weak charge, red for depleting, didn't show volts. Was orange light at idle, had to get above 4k rpm (with high beams off) to show the green light. Even over 5k rpm with brights on was showing the red light. His suggestion was to convert back to single headlight.

So I found this article and was thinking I had to do all this stuff to beef it up. I would like to add heated grips and a 12v outlet for a GPS or something as well, so I want to make sure my electrical system can easily handle the dual headlights and some accessories.

Charging System Diagnostics - Rectifier/Regulator Upgrade - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums

As I mentioned before though, I'm very new to wrenching, though I'm trying to learn as much as I can, it does make me nervous. I also hate the idea of being without my bike for a couple weeks while I blunder around trying to find the tools/parts/etc and figure out what I'm doing... but I'm out of work so I need to do what I can to save money.

Should I bite the bullet and buy a voltmeter and test for volts? If so, what brand or what type/kind do you recommend? I've seen them for $20 up over $200 and have no idea the differences or what functions I may need.

Thanks for the advice!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You can get a very nice volt meter for under $50.00.

First off, part of your issue is having dual High beam head lights and the low beam headlight mod MAY be questionable. That's why your getting a yellow light at idle.

(1) You should NOT have BOTH HIGH BEAM filaments working, EVER....If it does, it needs to be put back to stock.

(2) The dual headlight mod(the most popular -BD43), simply uses the factory harness and lights up the RS (as you sit on the bike) LOW BEAM.

When the HB switch is turned on, ONLY the right side should go to HIGH BEAM and the LOW BEAM FILAMENT should turn off-
You DO NOT want both filaments on at the same time. It shortens the bulbs life and IF your burning ALL your filaments on HB, you way
OVER TAXING your electrical system.


If all your mechanic has is a red, yellow, green voltmeter, FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC.

That's like feeling your tire, by hand to see if the air pressure is correct...

 

[Motogiro]

As always, you should fully charge your battery and then have it load tested, After you've established you have a healthy battery you should then check your charging system. As I've mentioned in many threads there is a more accurate way to establish the charging system output by measuring current(amperage) and voltage. This would be more difficult with our type charging system and that leaves us with the voltage reference as a guide to whether the system seems to be working. Unfortunately these basic tests don't actually guarantee our charging systems are up to their design capability and would require more test equipment and experience with the bike's charging system design and requirement.

Other practical and oft times overlooked are connections, Check that the battery terminal connections are clean and secure. Check your regulator rectifier plug for signs if pin damage or poor connection. Check that the battery case is clean. Wash the top of the battery with a toothbrush and some dish soap. This can eliminate constant low current leakage across the top of the battery which drains it. Consider you may have a bad diode in your regulator rectifier assembly. If you have a damaged diode it will reduce current output or can cause a drain on the system. There can also be a damaged shunt in the regulator rectifier.

 

[Taz3]

You can get a very nice volt meter for under $50.00.

First off, part of your issue is having dual High beam head lights and the low beam headlight mod MAY be questionable. That's why your getting a yellow light at idle.

(1) You should NOT have BOTH HIGH BEAM filaments working, EVER....If it does, it needs to be put back to stock.

(2) The dual headlight mod(the most popular -BD43), simply uses the factory harness and lights up the RS (as you sit on the bike) LOW BEAM.

When the HB switch is turned on, ONLY the right side should go to HIGH BEAM and the LOW BEAM FILAMENT should turn off-
You DO NOT want both filaments on at the same time. It shortens the bulbs life and IF your burning ALL your filaments on HB, you way
OVER TAXING your electrical system.


If all your mechanic has is a red, yellow, green voltmeter, FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC.

That's like feeling your tire, by hand to see if the air pressure is correct...

So what kind of voltmeter should I look for? I'll hit up Canadian Tire and grab one soon if they have one with the functions you recommend for not a bad price.

I didn't realise this about the dual light mod. I had never looked into it myself, the PO was a mechanic and seemed to know what he was doing/talking about, very organized garage, everything in order, all original parts for the bike came with it, etc. I think that's strange that an extra filament/bulb would be enough to overload the system though... and I do like the dual look and visibility with both high beams on... could I use bulbs that draw less power, like someone mentioned earlier LED's, to get around that issue? Someone else mentioned there's a type of bulb that's very efficient but I forget what it was... I can only think of halogens (I was warned away from these as they draw more power), LED's, and.... whatever a regular bulb is called, which is what I think I have..

The ,mechanic I went to used to own his own shop for like 20 years, a lot of track guys still use him, works out of his garage... but I was super unimpressed. He forgot to put my tank bolt back in (one of the two at the front) and also forgot to tighten the bolt that holds the radiator in place, which I didn't notice until I was installing an engine guard the next day and it was missing. He was cash and inexpensive though.... *sigh*... get what you pay for, but I really need to figure out how to do more stuff on my own now lol!

 

[Taz3]

As always, you should fully charge your battery and then have it load tested, After you've established you have a healthy battery you should then check your charging system. As I've mentioned in many threads there is a more accurate way to establish the charging system output by measuring current(amperage) and voltage. This would be more difficult with our type charging system and that leaves us with the voltage reference as a guide to whether the system seems to be working. Unfortunately these basic tests don't actually guarantee our charging systems are up to their design capability and would require more test equipment and experience with the bike's charging system design and requirement.

Other practical and oft times overlooked are connections, Check that the battery terminal connections are clean and secure. Check your regulator rectifier plug for signs if pin damage or poor connection. Check that the battery case is clean. Wash the top of the battery with a toothbrush and some dish soap. This can eliminate constant low current leakage across the top of the battery which drains it. Consider you may have a bad diode in your regulator rectifier assembly. If you have a damaged diode it will reduce current output or can cause a drain on the system. There can also be a damaged shunt in the regulator rectifier.

Do I take it to a mechanic/shop to load test, or is this something I do on my own? I will check the connections on the battery and clean them as suggested, thanks! I will look up what a regulator rectifier plug is and check that too, lol, but what would be signs of pin damage? Do I do something to check the diodes? Or the shunt?...maybe a better question is, should I be asking a mechanic or an electrician to help me figure out all this stuff? lol!

Did either of you check out that sportbike electrical upgrade thread I posted? I think I'd be able to follow the directions in it if you think that would cover what you're mentioning here.

 

[Motogiro]

Do I take it to a mechanic/shop to load test, or is this something I do on my own? I will check the connections on the battery and clean them as suggested, thanks! I will look up what a regulator rectifier plug is and check that too, lol, but what would be signs of pin damage? Do I do something to check the diodes? Or the shunt?...maybe a better question is, should I be asking a mechanic or an electrician to help me figure out all this stuff? lol!

Did either of you check out that sportbike electrical upgrade thread I posted? I think I'd be able to follow the directions in it if you think that would cover what you're mentioning here.

If you don't have a battery load tester, charge the battery and take it to an auto parts store and have it load tested. Multimeters are cheap and you don't need an expensive one for this type of work unless you're going into other types of auto electrical work as a technician. I keep a cheapo in my car just as a reference meter. I got a 5 dollar multimeter from Harbor Freight! I just use it in emergency. I have more expensive meters. There are videos on how to check the regulator rectifier.
I have read about switching to series regulation as apposed to shunt regulators and the series regulator would keep the stator running much cooler.
For right now a simple charging and load test to confirm your battery is good will get you to the point of testing the voltage to give you an idea of whether your charging system is working. Do these basics first and then you can think about the headlight mod.
Your charging system is designed to handle having both filaments burning but if your doing a lot of low revs and stop n go idling you might have an issue especially if you don't have a healthy battery and charging system.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

There's NOT much extra watts for lots of goodies, probably one of the reasons Yamaha uses one bulb for LB and one for HB (stock).

We've seen lots of "dual headlight " mods here, some just tapping into another line and other other ways (some without a relay). The BD43
doesn't use a relay, just plugs into the factory harness and unless you do ALOT of slow speed, fan on, city riding, its not an issue.

As noted above, check the battery first, then go from there. I suspect that mod is very likely a major part of your issue...

 

[Taz3]

Thanks guys!! Battery is on tender now, will get it load tested soon and proceed from there. Townsends, do you think that triumph electrical upgrade tutorial I posted would make a difference and allow me to run 2 filaments, gps, heated grips?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks guys!! Battery is on tender now, will get it load tested soon and proceed from there. Townsends, do you think that triumph electrical upgrade tutorial I posted would make a difference and allow me to run 2 filaments, gps, heated grips?

I haven't seen what upgrade you have (Triumph ?), but the system (again, unless always in slow city traffic) can handle both headlamps (that's stock-one LB and one HB on).

I also run a GPS (super low draw-tapped into the front, directional running lamp). I also have a side BMW style outlet and can run heated gear BUT turn it off when I stop at a light, sit for any length of time.(an older Widder vest with Gauntlet heated gloves).

I wouldn't think the grips would pull as much as my vest and gloves, but your close to the limit of the systems stock output with that (especially if the fan kicks on, etc).


Once your battery is known to be good(replaced), the headlight "mod" checked/ possibly changed. you should be fine...


In POST #5, did you watch the video I posted?
It shows with the dual headlight mod on, GPS, the voltage output of the engine. You want the output obviously above 13 volts with your goodies turned on or your running down the battery(and literally running off the battery-eventually killing it).

My dual headlight mod IS the BD43 set up.

If you want more light W/O major mod's, I run PIAA bulbs(plug and play). They draw the same watts as the stockers but put out more light. Not cheap but, for me, they work fine and last fairly long: PIAA | H7 XTreme White Plus Single Halogen Bulb #70755
the "extreme white bulbs", You'd need one H7 and one H4

 

[Taz3]

I haven't seen what upgrade you have (Triumph ?), but the system (again, unless always in slow city traffic) can handle both headlamps (that's stock-one LB and one HB on).

In POST #5, did you watch the video I posted?
It shows with the dual headlight mod on, GPS, the voltage output of the engine. You want the output obviously above 13 volts with your goodies turned on or your running down the battery(and literally running off the battery-eventually killing it).

If you want more light W/O major mod's, I run PIAA bulbs(plug and play). They draw the same watts as the stockers but put out more light. Not cheap but, for me, they work fine and last fairly long: PIAA | H7 XTreme White Plus Single Halogen Bulb #70755
the "extreme white bulbs", You'd need one H7 and one H4

Thanks again for the reply!

I posted a link once or twice in this thread to a tutorial on beefing up sportbike electrical systems. The write of it has an electrical background I think and is convinced most sportbikes have weak systems (as I think Motogiro or yourself also mentioned earlier). It was originally posted on a Triumph forum and I believe he is working on a Triumph for the tutorial, but mentions where most bikes will be compatible, so I referred to it as the Triumph upgrade lol. Here it is again: Charging System Diagnostics - Rectifier/Regulator Upgrade - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums

I do mostly higher speed/higher rev traveling with my FZ6, live in the country to even commuting was between 80-100kph. I also have a 15T front sprocket so I'm revving higher throughout the range. So I'm not worried about the faan draw at lower speeds, etc too much. Have an eye surgery Thursday morning so won't be able to get battery load tested til later next week, and like you said, will go from there. Should I leave it on the tender for several days, until I can take it in? Or take it off now that it's showing charged?

I watched the vid with envy, hahaha. I forgot to look though... when your HB is on one side, is the LB on the other side as well? With the mod? Or is that standard?

The PIAA's are definitely something I've considered, I'm not happy with my LB's at night at all. Thanks again for the info!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

. Should I leave it on the tender for several days, until I can take it in? Or take it off now that it's showing charged?

When your HB is on one side, is the LB on the other side as well? With the mod? Or is that standard?

The PIAA's are definitely something I've considered, I'm not happy with my LB's at night at all. Thanks again for the info!

As long as you have a green light (you should by now) on the charger your good to load test it...


Re the BD43 mod:

Stock, the right side (HB) beam is OFF (in the LB position)
the Low Beam, on the left side is ALWAYS ON (with bike running)

With the BD43 mod it simply turns on the RIGHT SIDE bulb ON LOW BEAM so you have both bulbs on (set on low)

When flipping your switch to high beam, ONLY the right side bulb switches up to HIGH (the same bulb-the low beam ((RS)) filament turns off). The left, low beam, as stated earlier, is ALWAYS ON. So you don't have the "one bulb out look."


**What I suspect may be your issue, both filaments stay ON both bulbs, when set to high beam (way to much wattage draw, excess heat, shorter bulb life).


Reading a good part of your link (he seems very knowledgeable), I think the bottom line is the stator, for the FZ puts out only so much watts. Yamaha made it just slightly larger for a bike NOT meant to have lots of add on electrical goodies(weight and $ savings).
The FJR's, over time, have increased the output of their stators. The Goldwing has a separate alternator JUST LIKE a small car-completely separate and buried inside the trans case. I know as my old 04 wing had the main alternator bearing fail- under warranty, they had to pull the engine.....

 

[Taz3]

Green, good to go, will take it in next week!

Ohhh, I think I finally understand about the headlights now. That sounds cool, I don't think mine does that, I think both HB are on fo HB but will have to check. I like the sounds of the BD43 mode better anyway, now that I understand it.

I thought my issue might be the shunt or rectifier or something (don't even know what that is but going off what I read in that link) and was thinking I might need one of those MOSFET things. Will hold off until I load test battery and do a proper BD43 mod (if it doesn't have that one already). But you're saying stator... is that something that an individual can replace and upgrade to put out more watts? Or it is what it is?

Another idea I was toying with was getting a lithium battery, since they are so small, and running stuff off that, but don't know how I'd charge it.

 

[FinalImpact]

At a glance, beefing up the FZ for more output is not easy. Its far cheaper and easier to conserve than make more power.

Do search for JJD952 ELECTRICAL...

Best bang for buck is convert to 35watt ballasts w HID... My issue is the nasty blair from the oem lights is likely a life saver while HID into projectors takes away that nasty blair that helps us be seen!

So, 70 watts total vs 110.

I had 8.5 years on the oem battery 4 of those w dual headlights... No issues.

FWIW: It would be very hard to look at the light and tell both elements are lit. Put on your welding goggles cause it's gonna hurt your eyes.
I know you dont have meter yet, but small 12v test lamp could be used with the connector off. From ground only one leg of the two should have power at a time. Any bulb or even an led could be used to verify this...

To get the most out a meter purchase, you need one that does diode checking so you can verify the regulator rectifier diodes...

 

[FinalImpact]

Go to post three... Information overload... lol


Batteries, Charging & the Regulator Rectifier

This too. Hands on testing of ballasts vs bulbs...
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ent-4-0-amps.html?highlight=Jjd952+electrical

Found an H1 bulb in the cages glove box so I had to know....

Using the same setup as above the mighty incandescent bulb is very hungry!!! And unlike the electronic hi-voltage counter part the more you give it the more it takes....

4.5A @ 11.5V (51.75 Watts)

4.8A @ 13.5V (64.8 Watts)

The bad news is; the FZ's Regulator Rectifier simply consumes all excess wattage making heat so it simply goes to waste if not used! :spank:

PS - I'm still seeing spots.... Bulb is bright w/out containment! lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As stated above, its MUCH more difficult to get more wattage from the engine (space limitations).

As in your earlier posts, you were getting the "yellow" light at low RPM's. Too much pull, not enough output.

So once the battery is replaced/known to be good, addressing the headlight wiring will likely fix your issue.

And yes the stator can be pulled from inside the left cover, three torx head screws with some super duty loctite from Yamaha holding it on..

I needed a heat gun, on high, to break the loctite loose when I replaced my left side cover.

 

[Taz3]

JJD952 ELECTRICAL - I Googled this and only got this thread, one other in this forum, and one in a Mazda car forum or something. What is it I am looking for by searching that? Is that a part number or something?

So I took my battery to CTC (Canadian Tire) and had it load tested. The one he used had some wires in a box kind of thing. It was fully charged and showing green light on the charger before taking it in.

As soon as he connected the load tester, it dropped down to the middle-lower yellow section (of the red/yellow/green spectrum) which was labeled "Weak".

This means time for a new battery? If so, I'm guessing I can search this forum for info/suggestions?

LOL FinalImpact, no kidding about the Info Overload!!!!

TownsendsFJR1300 I will definitely be looking into switching to PIAA's once I get the battery sorted. If there's no problem (bike doesn't die with brights on) with the headlight config as is with PIAA's and a new battery then should I still change to the BD43 mod?(

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The load tester you described is what I have, the old style. All those wires inside get very hot, very fast putting a hard load on the battery. The gauge has a scale, you'd be looking at CCA cold cranking amps for your battery (probably 210) and watch the scale.

A battery, I had (forgot if it was a car or bike battery) was also right on the line (weak) too.

Brought the battery down to Auto Zone and it failed. The digital testers are a "good/no good" but you can get an good idea with it.

This is what a bought in 2012, $20.00 and works as described:

Amazon.com: Schumacher BT-100 100 amp Battery Load Tester: Automotive

And IMO, I'd be replacing the battery if its weak. Its not worth me jerking around with push starting when it does fail or getting odd issues (my dash lights would go out when cranking) with the old battery..