First ride on new FZ6 - Some inquiry about shifting/clutch

[KHarper4289]

So I've had 3 motorcycles before this FZ6 and all of them had this problem in some iteration, but not quite as bad. They have been all Suzuki bikes though, one brand new, two used. Suzukis shift like a dream to me. This Yamaha does not (that's fine, I've read all about the slightly clunky gearbox).

The issue I have is when I apply pressure to the shifter, preparing to shift, it will sometimes feel a bit loose, and might even shift up a gear without clutch-lever pull. This has happened on every bike I've owned, but I am just curious as this has been getting to me. I usually like to "shift like I mean it", but when doing so on this bike, it will pop up a gear. It is surprisingly smooth on the shift, no jerk or anything, the revs just drop a hair. I'm just wondering if this could mean a transmission issue, such as a bent or worn shifting fork?

BTW this is a 2007 and the bike has about 5,000 miles on it. It was babied, not neglected. It has a fresh oil change with Yamalube. On my Suzukis, I'd run the shift lever really tight. it would snap back into place. This bike is not like that and I haven't adjusted the clutch cable too much. It has about .15-.2" of free play in it. I see in the manual it should be .39-.59.

Just looking for some insight on this. I love this bike so far, it is a world-apart from my SV650, better in every single way that I've noticed so far.

 

[thisisbenji]

Mine has shifted similar to all the other bikes I've rode.

That being said, if you apply pressure before pulling in the clutch you should clutch less up shift. If your going to use the clutch wait until you pull in the clutch to press the shift lever. My bike bangs up gears with no issues with just a slight pressure on the shifter and no clutch.

 

[trepetti]

The idea that this happens top you on other bikes certainly leans more towards behavior and less towards a mechanical problem. And if I understand that you put pressure (pre-load) the shifter to prepare for a gear change, then I am betting I have the answer.

When you are on the throttle (either accelerating or cruising), the dog clutch on the driving gear is pushing the dog clutch on the DRIVEN gear. When you come off the throttle and experience engine braking, the dog clutch on the driven gear is pushing on the dog clutch of the DRIVING gear. And it In both cases, the effort to disengage the current gear is higher. So as you prepare to change gears by pre-loading the shifter, applying some force but not enough to overcome the transmission's 'resistance' to shifting. Everything is good and nothing happens....... until you drop the throttle....

For a brief instant between the time you go from on-the-throttle to engine braking, the drive and driven dog clutches are spinning freely at the same speed. It is at this moment that the load on the dog clutches reduces to near zero. The transmission now reduces its resistance to shifting, and if the pre-load effort was enough (which in your case it is), the shifter moves and you change gears.

As the matter of fact, what you are doing is the correct way to upshift without the clutch.

I am of the opinion that you are using too much pre-load. Lighten up some. Or - grab the clutch sooner, so that you decouple the power a bit sooner, as the engine is JUST going off throttle.

Either way, if you are not banging the gears (and you'd KNOW if you where), they I don't believe you are causing any excessive wear and tear.

Hope this helps...

 

[KHarper4289]

The idea that this happens top you on other bikes certainly leans more towards behavior and less towards a mechanical problem. And if I understand that you put pressure (pre-load) the shifter to prepare for a gear change, then I am betting I have the answer.

When you are on the throttle (either accelerating or cruising), the dog clutch on the driving gear is pushing the dog clutch on the DRIVEN gear. When you come off the throttle and experience engine braking, the dog clutch on the driven gear is pushing on the dog clutch of the DRIVING gear. And it In both cases, the effort to disengage the current gear is higher. So as you prepare to change gears by pre-loading the shifter, applying some force but not enough to overcome the transmission's 'resistance' to shifting. Everything is good and nothing happens....... until you drop the throttle....

For a brief instant between the time you go from on-the-throttle to engine braking, the drive and driven dog clutches are spinning freely at the same speed. It is at this moment that the load on the dog clutches reduces to near zero. The transmission now reduces its resistance to shifting, and if the pre-load effort was enough (which in your case it is), the shifter moves and you change gears.

As the matter of fact, what you are doing is the correct way to upshift without the clutch.

I am of the opinion that you are using too much pre-load. Lighten up some. Or - grab the clutch sooner, so that you decouple the power a bit sooner, as the engine is JUST going off throttle.

Either way, if you are not banging the gears (and you'd KNOW if you where), they I don't believe you are causing any excessive wear and tear.

Hope this helps...

I think what worries me the most is when I'm preparing for a gear shift, haven't dropped throttle at all, no engine braking, I begin to place my foot underneath the shifter to find that it is loose, like there is no resistance on my foot, it feels as if the fork isn't in it's appropriate groove/hole. It happens intermittently, so it could be user error/clutch cable adjustment.

 

[thisisbenji]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it proper to pre engage the gear shift lever if your not clutch less up shifting? I've never pre engaged if I was planning on using the clutch.

 

[trepetti]

Pre-loading the shifter will take some of the clunk out of shifting, and yes, it is effective even if you are going to use the clutch.

 

[trepetti]

I think what worries me the most is when I'm preparing for a gear shift, haven't dropped throttle at all, no engine braking, I begin to place my foot underneath the shifter to find that it is loose, like there is no resistance on my foot, it feels as if the fork isn't in it's appropriate groove/hole. It happens intermittently, so it could be user error/clutch cable adjustment.

I am relying on your statement that all your bikes have had this problem in one way or another. There is only 1 common part shared on all the bikes .

It is possible there is a mechanical problem (there is a ratcheting mechanism that controls the shift lever....see photo). Take a look at the springs and other parts to make sure nothing looks out of place.

But try reducing the pre-load effort and see if the problem goes away.

View attachment FZ6 Shifter.pdf

 

[FinalImpact]

I am relying on your statement that all your bikes have had this problem in one way or another. There is only 1 common part shared on all the bikes .

It is possible there is a mechanical problem (there is a ratcheting mechanism that controls the shift lever....see photo). Take a look at the springs and other parts to make sure nothing looks out of place.

But try reducing the pre-load effort and see if the problem goes away.

View attachment 66102

Yep... Makes you wonder if a spring is broke.
Lever should offer equal force/resistance when moved up or down.

It is different from 6th to elusive 7th...

Please confirm if offers the same feel up and down and honestly it need not fully go into gear. Point; it should always offer resistance.

Also, verify the lever through Rearset does NOT collide with the rearset. If someone misadjusted the lever to change its height, this could be an issue too!

Hint punch mark on shift shaft should align with punch mark on lever.

 

[thisisdylan]

Mine has shifted similar to all the other bikes I've rode.

That being said, if you apply pressure before pulling in the clutch you should clutch less up shift. If your going to use the clutch wait until you pull in the clutch to press the shift lever. My bike bangs up gears with no issues with just a slight pressure on the shifter and no clutch.

Curious to know the effects on the dogs when doing this. I know sequential gearboxes are kind of built for this stuff, but are there any negatives? Just curious, I don't clutchless shift much.