Fuel pump replacement

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
To add to the above, when you start it dead cold, does it idle slightly higher(about how many RPMs?).

You should be able to smell the slightly richer ix when cold...

And what is the warmed up RPMs?
 

pmmcanon

Member
Sounds like the ECU is not giving a richer mix when the motor is cold. When you say 75 degs. I'll assume this is coolant/engine temp centigrade.
If this clears up once the engine is warm and there is no fueling problem full throttle, it's probably not a fuel volume delivery problem.
Another ECU fuel mix is governed by the air temp sensor. You are not seeing a code for this so I think it has no merit to the problem.

One thing you might also try, is to disconnect the battery for 30 minutes or more. ECUs develop volatile memory over time and a reset by removing battery power can give the ECU the ability to relearn and get a new baseline on the sensors.
Thanks Motogiro, yes I mean centigrade degrees. As for the smell when cold it seems to be rich mixture, but as soon you turn throttle (no matter slightly or tough) it stalls. The iddle when cold is lower than previously, around 1000 rpm but stable. The air intake temp should be ok as it displays a reasonable value when selected at the dash and change when the filter box begin to receive some heat from the engine. I've also had the battery disconected for more than an hour with the same behaviour...
 

pmmcanon

Member
To add to the above, when you start it dead cold, does it idle slightly higher(about how many RPMs?).

You should be able to smell the slightly richer ix when cold...

And what is the warmed up RPMs?
No... it run at 1000 rpm, slightly lower than when warmed, and yes it smell rich enough. After warming it iddles around 1200
 

pmmcanon

Member
Gents, 'm going to stop this for a while because I'm leaving home for holydays 2 weeks. I'll continue as soon as I return. Many thks for ALL the contributions and speak soon
 

pmmcanon

Member
Back to track
A little recap over the situation:
  • I started rebuilt of the bike cleaning the tank which had a terrible ammount of mud inside
  • I checked the fuel pump and was faulty
  • In the mean time I mounted an alternative pump (R6 pump with a R6 tank) I had in the garaje just to check if the injection system was ok, it fired and immediatly I shut off ignition (no check of stalling or reving ok)
  • I changed the pump to a Denso unit with the same specs (the details are on the thread)
  • It started ok but was stalling when cold, no gas allowed during the warming because it will stall and stop, as it was getting warm more gas was allowed with less stalls, there was a point of engine temp (75/80 degrees centigrade) that was working more or less ok, some stalling but not severe.
  • During a short run the bike begun to stall also when warm, it was a extreme hot day (39 degrees) and was in a risky road to stop, I continued with severe stalling for 3/4 Km and stopped in a safe area: The result was engine temp ok around 90 degrees but the exhaust was so hot that melted the plastic around it (pics on the thread).
  • I checked, flushed and cleaned the injection system: Pipeline, rail and injectors with carb cleaner and pressure, all was ok no mud inside
  • I checked the sparks, seems rich but not too much
  • Checked and cleaned the lambda sensor, seems ok
  • Checked and cleaned contacts of the tps, ok readings through diag
  • Checked the pressure injection sensor
  • Found that sometimes the display was showing HI in the temp (and the bike was completely cold) I Checked the engine temp sensor and now works ok
  • Also checked the Air Intake temp sensor and was ok
  • No leaks in the injection system nor the pump gasket or the pipeline or the rail or the injectors
The bike now is able to start, no gas allowed when its cold and the iddle begins with very low rpm (around 1000) and after some seconds become higher (1200) stable wich a very rich smell and after 1/2 minutes it comes back to 1000. If you let it warm it begin to improve stalls and if you carefully try to rev it it responds with some stalling but is able to rev (not smoothly but it revs).

At a death point now
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
As noted earlier, cold start should have a higher idle and , I can smell the excess fuel (at least for me).

As I have my RPMs turned down some, cold start RPMs are about 1,300.
Once warm, hot RPMs are at 1,100 and NO excess fuel/ smell..

The cold start/ richer mix is up near the TB's. Coolant goes up there thru a line.
How it works from there, I'm not sure however there's many threads on the forum about it.

I suspect your issue, at least part of it, is likely there.. **It shouldn't have a lower cold start idle, then rise..
 

pmmcanon

Member
As noted earlier, cold start should have a higher idle and , I can smell the excess fuel (at least for me).

As I have my RPMs turned down some, cold start RPMs are about 1,300.
Once warm, hot RPMs are at 1,100 and NO excess fuel/ smell..

The cold start/ richer mix is up near the TB's. Coolant goes up there thru a line.
How it works from there, I'm not sure however there's many threads on the forum about it.

I suspect your issue, at least part of it, is likely there.. **It shouldn't have a lower cold start idle, then rise..
Thanks Scott, sure you're right, the idling and air/fuel ratio during cold start is managed through a specific coolant circuit going into the injection system. But at this moment I'm not concerned about it as I have major issues going on. I was mentioning it only as a sympthom if it could help to identify where the main problem is. Maybe a video of a cold start will help to express all the things happening. I'll try to record and upload it asap.
Thanks anyway
 

pmmcanon

Member
Another finding... idle screw doesn't work, I've screwed it to max and doesn't increase rpms, but if you unscrew it goes down at a certain point. I've removed it and checked that the internal mechanism moves and it does. Maybe the IACV is clogged or fault? Also moved (and returned to same position) the sync screws.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
I'd be interested to see what a Manometer hooked up would show..
If, when adjusting each cylinder, is it doing anything.. I suspect their way out of spec.
If you haven't already hooked up a meter, might be time to do so..


Have you tried opening up the Main, #1 TB adjuster some? As I re-call, it should be about
1 full out from seated. If this screw is too tight, you WILL loose the ability to adjust the idle
with the idle screw..

Everything your posting points to the TB's.

Are you adjusting the TB's per the Yamaha manual?


As such:

 

pmmcanon

Member
Going to dismount the TB block and see what I find... Not sure if there is something wrong inside i can fix
 

pmmcanon

Member
I'm not an expert in injection but translating it to carburation it seems that the low circuit is not working and when you turn the gas at low rpms it goes from nothing to a lot of fuel... I'll tell you what do I find inside the TB.
 

pmmcanon

Member
Well, TB synchro module checked:
Everything seems to be ok, the cold temp circuit moves freely and acts at 55 degrees celsius, the screws for adjusting are ok and the iddle cylinder moves freely too. There was only some dirt (not too much) in the body and in the edge of the needles.
Nothing has changed after this check, it continue doing the same, stalling when cold and clearing a bit when warm
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
No vacuum leaks anywhere? You might want to start spraying all of the vacuum connections with carb cleaner to rule that out. Check for an idle change.

Anyone starting to think that this is ECU related?
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
No vacuum leaks anywhere? You might want to start spraying all of the vacuum connections with carb cleaner to rule that out. Check for an idle change.

Anyone starting to think that this is ECU related?
Dunno...

I suspect if nothing can ruled out definitely, a used ECU or TB's would be next..

I'm still leaning towards the TB's with no adjustments working, cold idle lower rather than higher, etc.

The ECU, I don't believe would be "stopping" the idle adjustment(or lack of, again, the low cold start idle, etc), but something in the intake system...

I'd also be investing in a Morgan Carbtune(about $100) and see what's going on there.

...
 

pmmcanon

Member
OK, at this confusing point I'll try to figure out some co-relations and some background over the bike:
About the Bike
  • 17.000 Km. (10,5 K miles), not new but almost, most of the use is on local roads and some highway
  • Coolant, oil, fork oil, sparks serviced by me at lower intervals than maintenance recomendations
  • Been stopped for 4 years and now being revivied
Detailed behaviour after all the checks I've performed
  • Starting from stricktly cold: It fires and run at 1000 rpm (aprox) for 10-20 seconds, then it goes to 1.500 and stays there until 55 degrees celsius are reached (no gas allowed as it stalls heavy), from 55 to 75 degrees it allows to apply some gas with continuos stall more severe if you try to add more gas than a bit. Not working the iddle screw
  • When warmed there is stalling throttling from iddle, more stall when throttled deep less when applyied gently, throttling from 3000/4000 rpm seems to work but you can notice some stall. If you turn the gas a bit and hold this position it stalls but after 1 to 3 seconds it revs to a fixed rpm. Not working the iddle adjust through the screw
Detailed checks during TB reinstall
  • I mounted the adjust screws at the same turns it was previously and the result was the same
  • I unscrew all 2/3 turns and the bike was revving better when warm but if you stop it you cannot fire again. Gaining some control of the iddle screw
  • I returned to a "starting point": full in and 3/4 of a turn out and it fired again when warm but with some stalling. Poor iddle screw control
Some statements (Maybe I'm wrong in some)
  • Through all the checks the only one that has brought some changes is the TB sync module.
  • I think it's all related to de AF ratio
  • Playing with the screws (and iddle screw) you can get better result when cold or when warm but not in both points
  • No leaks as I've checked with carb cleaner the TB seat and Joints
  • Begining to think that the O2 sensor is involved in that issue
  • One possibility is TB sync Block defective but the cold circuit is ok and the remaining systems are bloody simple... air pipes and metal cylinders
I'm not going to give up but it's bringing some headaches o_Oo_O
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
Quote:
  • One possibility is TB sync Block defective but the cold circuit is ok and the remaining systems are bloody simple... air pipes and metal cylinders
End quote.. I truly believe there's something amiss/clogged, very possibly in the TB Sync Block.

If you don't want to purchase a manometer, you can make your own. There's many posts on it, here on the forum- IMO, that's more of headache than it's worth, you need to get some gauges on the TB's.

I'd probably start looking around for a set of used TB's(complete). Some of the crap initially found probably made it into that block (as you've checked elsewhere) not allowing ANY adjustment at the block.

BTW, those tuning screws on the block are EXTREMELY SENSITIVE. Just "winging it" /adjusting blind pretty much, WILL cause running issues.

Last TB sync I did, I sync at idle and at 4K and fine tune for the closest. That usually takes me 1/2 hour (large fan in front of the radiator) and as stated it takes VERY LITTLE to move a sync high or low..

My last sync:
 
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