Joined the club

[beatle]

So I'm no longer one of the "riders who will go down." I was out for a ride with fellow forum member, Judd, in Western MD. Great roads, great weather, and relatively little traffic. We had ridden close to 100 miles or so when we came to a "surprise" T-intersection right after a right turn at the corner of Wolfsville Rd. and Foxville Rd. in Smithsburg, MD. We each locked up our rear tires, but I obviously didn't have enough front brake as I was likely going to head into the intersection. I went into a tank slapper at 20 mph or so and then was tossed off the left side of the bike onto my left elbow and shoulder. My left knee and hip also made impact.

Gear was an Alpinestars leather jacket, TCX x2 boots, Torque Kevlar jeans, and Held Phantom gloves. It all did its job, and I walked away without carrying any pavement with me, though I can tell on my knee and foot where the impact was. I've got a bit of a limp today, but will be okay.

As for the bike, I had Motovation frame and axle sliders which saved the tank and preserved most of the fairing. The stator cover, mirror, headlight, bar end, headlight mole, and rear plastic trim all got scratched up, and my turn signal popped off. A few of Judd's well-placed zipties got the signal back in place for my 70+ mile ride home.

I've been riding for a little over 2 years and though I'm better than I was when I started, I've never really gotten better at braking. I tend to lean on the rear brake more than the front - maybe this is just muscle memory from driving? I'll pick up some new pieces, turn a few bolts, and the bike will look better than before. :thumbup: I'll post a few pics later today.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Hmm, spirited riding? Need to work on your front braking, also downshifted into first would have helped. Glad youre ok.

 

[beatle]

It was a bit spirited, but nothing close to squid-like. Speed limit was 35, and I actually don't think we were going much more than that. Here's the location on Google Streets. Is that another motorcycle skidmark right before the intersection or just a tar snake?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.646...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1stFT8BScGSyJUcNqCCxYFdA!2e0

I don't know I even grabbed the clutch, but I know I was in 4th gear or so when I stood the bike up. What's a good way to work on braking? I don't have ABS in my car either, and when I take that to the track and lock up the wheels coming to the end of a straight, I can usually just feather it out enough to get the wheels going by lifting my right toe.

 

[FinalImpact]

Glad your OK and the bike will survive with a little $$$ thrown at it. Taking your link and seeing it from above I'm a little surprised this snuck up on both of you.

As for braking its about muscle memory. In a safe area practice practice practice and from different speeds in different areas. Up hill, down hill, on a corner (use caution) and learn the limits of man and machine. This may seem lame but I try to cheat my brain by tricking it.

• Example is this: on the 3rd pothole seen, invoke maximum braking! Unlike power poles with even spacing and being able to predict when its coming, potholes and mail boxes are more random. Road kill works too!

As you brake hard the nose will compress as weight transfers forward. Work on applying maximum "controlled braking". As you gain experience and confidence, feed in small amounts of rear brake.
Growing more; work on shifting your weight rearward using the pegs to keep some of the weight off the nose.
#1 --> Keep practicing! Also it may help to lower the rear brake lever making it harder to lock the rear tire.

 

[Erci]

Glad you didn't get badly hurt and that the bike is mostly OK :thumbup:

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Unless I'm misjudging the distance, you should have had no problem stopping from 60mph. You need to practice braking, mostly front and engine, skidding the rear will do nothing, the difference between car and bike is simple. You have a tiny rotor in the back and two giant rotors in the front. That's why engine braking is key for that rear tire, if you weren't going much faster than 35, well my fz6 red lines in first at 64mph. Unless you are running a different sprocket, yours does too.

 

[beatle]

I think I already mentioned that. :eyebrow:

Braking in a car is much different, and it has nothing to do with the size of the brakes. In my car I have a mechanical proportioning valve (mine is adjustable) that allows me to adjust the brake bias for the front and rear wheels, so every time I hit the brakes, I provide consistent pressure to the front and rear brakes based on that set proportion. On the bike, I am the proportioning valve. As I mentioned in my first post, I know I need to work on my braking. FinalImpact is really the only person to have given me any advice as to how to do that.

I may try some front brake exercises at a relatively slow speed and see just how much brake force the front brakes will provide. This may allow me to build some confidence in their ability to stop the bike. I know the physics of brake force and weight transfer - I just need to apply that to my fingers!

 

[Erci]

I may try some front brake exercises at a relatively slow speed and see just how much brake force the front brakes will provide.

Really don't want this to turn into a front brake only vs both brake discussion, but to put it simply: FZ6 is one of the bikes which can easily do 100% front wheel braking.

It's relatively easy to apply both brakes fully in a controlled situation and sure you can and should practice quick stops every chance you get, but when you truly panic (and ideally you never should), it's easy to overcook the rear on this bike.

Definitely try it for yourself. Practice doing quick stops with both brakes and with just the front. Set up cones and measure your stopping distances.

If your brake application is good, meaning progressive.. you can get on the front brake very hard with very little chance of locking up the wheel, provided you're on surface with good traction.

My stopping distances with rear and without are within a foot of each other, from ~25mph and FZ1 actually keeps more of the weight on the rear than FZ6.

Whatever your preference, practice it often! :thumbup:

 

[MG-242]

Glad you're OK and damage was minimal. It also sounds like an excellent learning experience that will help in the future.

Yes, practice! Practice every single time you ride. Find a parking lot and practice. Find a deserted piece of road and practice at the speed you'll most likely be needing the skill. It doesn't help much to practice a 15-20mph when you're going to really need the skill at 50mph. Primary focus is on the front, but the rear also provides stopping power. Also, as mentioned, muscle memory. In an emergency stop it needs to be automatic and you're going to react as you practice.

Remember the initial application of the front needs to be progressive. You need to give it a few hundred miliseconds for the weight to transfer for more traction. Also, keep your head and eyes up. It makes a big difference in overall control.

Oh, and lastly, be sure to practice some more :thumbup:

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Surprise T section on a road you can clearly see down, link confirms it. Since my engine and moderate rear braking advice wasn't helpful, maybe you need a lesson in paying attention? That's not a trick curve. With the distance one could feasibly run 70-80 and stop way before the stop sign. Not a squidly thing huh? Out riding your limits.

Don't post a mess up and get upset about it.

 

[beatle]

I guess you're unfamiliar with the use of a wide angle lens distorting the perspective of distance. The approach to the intersection is not as long as it appears in Google Street view, but it's the reference point that anyone on the forum can use. The real issue I had was not braking properly anyway, hence my request for advice on how to reduce stopping distances. I can use those skills at any intersection.

I don't think you've contributed anything productive to this thread. Simply restating my original assertion that I made a mistake in my braking and then claiming, "yeah, I could have saved that," brings nothing of value to the table. However, let me know when you're going to approach that intersection at 80mph so I can be there with my camera. Should be good YouTube fodder. I'll even link it to the forum for you since you may not walk away from it.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

LoL. I didn't just state that I could have, but most people as well.

Are you familiar with turning your head and looking through/past the curve? Looking straight gets you where you are too.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Glad youre ok.

It's sad you wish bad things on people. You see, I've been taught by erc, msrc, and tid bits I pick up here. I actually was trying to help, coc an attitude squid. Noone else wrecked for you.

 

[beatle]

Never heard of it. All I can see is the bike's steering wheel. Please offer more sage wisdom.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Never heard of it. All I can see is the bike's steering wheel. Please offer more sage wisdom.

When entering a curve and you start the lean/turn, turn your head into it, see through the turn and bring the bike around to you. Kinda pooch your elbow out a tad and line your chin up with it.

Erci can probably explain it better than I. He is an instructor I think.

 

[Erci]

Wow this quickly went nowhere good. Let's try to keep things civilized, please. :spank:

 

[VEGASRIDER]

As others have said, practice your quick stops at various speeds and gain some muscle memory. If you don't have cones, parking stall lines make a great start point on when to apply your brakes. Remember, try not to anticipate. Meaning don't start applying your brakes until your front wheel crosses the start point. A common scenario when Rider Coaches try to score the braking evaluation, too many riders begin applying their braking before they cross the area where they should begin their braking. Also try to keep your head and eyes up, don't be looking down at the ground while braking.

Don't forget to practice your swerves, sometimes braking is not the best corrective action. If you don't practice swerving, it might not occur that this is even an option.

keep your speeds down on the surface streets. Speed is often a contributing factor to crashes, especially going around corners.

 

[beatle]

Here's a little album with the "carnage." I've been a fan of ATGATT since I started riding, but recently I've made a few small trips without some of it. Traded boots for low leather shoes, changed out my Kevlar jeans for standard (albeit heavier 16 oz.) denim. Though my head is always on a swivel, I could easily have to make a panic stop for any number of reasons, even on a small errand. Maybe I'll just look to revise my boots and jeans for something a little more street friendly without totally abandoning those pieces of gear...

FZ6 carnage - Imgur

 

[FinalImpact]

As others have said, practice your quick stops at various speeds and gain some muscle memory. If you don't have cones, parking stall lines make a great start point on when to apply your brakes. Remember, try not to anticipate. Meaning don't start applying your brakes until your front wheel crosses the start point. A common scenario when Rider Coaches try to score the braking evaluation, too many riders begin applying their braking before they cross the area where they should begin their braking. Also try to keep your head and eyes up, don't be looking down at the ground while braking.

<< SNIP >>

That's where Pot Holes, Road Kill, and Mail Boxes come in (never know WHEN you'll find them). So, when i'm in "training mode" I act on the 3rd item which is usually the 3rd pot hole seen and practice a quick stop! :thumbup: Well if its safe to do so!
--> Buy doing this it ALSO forces you to check your mirrors for threats from Behind (( )), really ALL environmental elements, and then act instantly to stop the bike. And I do it the moment that item is spotted!
Road Kill stoppie is the best tho!

 

[beatle]

This is good advice for actually practicing. Part of my issue in finding the limits of the bike is that once they're found, it can put the bike into an unsafe situation (like a slide.) I know from MSF that you're supposed to let the rear slide, but to ease up on the front brake to stop it from sliding.

The MSF course was good, and it taught me a lot of these principles, but unlike when I learned to drive my car at its limit, the worst I could do was wipe out a few cones when I exceeded its limits.