Keeping your line; do you?

[iviyth0s]

Question for all; anyone flinch or change your line when cars/bikes come at you in the opposing lane?

Sometimes, depending on where I am in the lane.

 

[Misti]

I'm still pretty careful with entry speed into corners, particularly blind corners because I'm not comfortable with gravel or other road hazards (squirrel).

I liked Misti's questions. I think, for me, the visual element is the biggest factor. I still have to work at looking through the turns and not getting distracted by scary cliffs and guard rails and rocks right in my path! Throttle control seems more natural to me than looking at the space next to the rock/hole/squirrel that appears in my line.

When my line of sight is clear through the whole turn, I'm a happy Hoon!

Great! Glad you like the questions and I think it is good that you take care with entering turns that you aren't really comfortable with. I'd also agree that the visual element of choosing your line and not getting distracted is the key to holding your line.

As you said, when your line of sight is clear you are happy.

But how can you work on improving your visual skills so that you are able to pick a clear and distinct line through corners? How do you ensure you don't get distracted or target fixate on something scary?

What I would like to learn is the technique for increasing my turn in speed.
I have a roundabout on my commute that I can exit at 80kph, I am not at the limit of the tyres or traction at this speed. I believe that if I could increase my entry speed I could come out much quicker. It's a mind thing. How can I improve this?
We have all had this type of corner issue, a lower gear feels too slow and in the wrong part of the power band and rolling on the throttle feels to aggressive as the bike accelerates through the top end of the power band.
Conversely a higher gear seems to lack the correct engine braking and the balance feels strange and roll on seems to be to neutral lacking the drive required as the rpms are just below the sweet spot.

Nelly:thumbup:

Someone answered that body position would help with improving your corner entry speed and while I agree that body position is important I'm not sure I follow how it will directly help improve your corner entry speed.

What do you think is the number one reason why some people can haul ass into a corner and some are more timid? Do you think they are looking at something different in the corner? Are they seeing things better? Are they flicking the bike over faster? Is it a combination of both?

Misti

 

[FinalImpact]

Body position.

I personally would stay in the lower gear to take advantage of the torque coming out, flick the bike in and get my body turned into the corner, knee out and a half a butt cheek hanging off. As soon as you hit the apex and see the exit out on the throttle and let the bike stand itself up allowing it to go back to the outside. But I'm still a noob, maybe a racer can tell us

For "basic" street riding, I don't see a need to hang cheeks and its more likely to upset the bike and blow you line thus causing real issues. A little too aggressive approach for learning the streets IMO.
Scan ahead, verify your clear for good grip w/out deviating from your position, your line is now set, so prep the bike by adjusting speed and gearing. Be smooth and keep looking ahead as you roll on the throttle past the apex.

There as so many variables its all about practice. Q? What stands out there is worthy of fixating on?

 

[Verharen]

But how can you work on improving your visual skills so that you are able to pick a clear and distinct line through corners? How do you ensure you don't get distracted or target fixate on something scary?

The short answer is "practice." My personal answer was to spend the summer riding. A lot. With people who are better and more experienced than me. With people who were fine with slowing down a bit and who ride at a steady, smooth pace. With Jerry. Unless he felt like stretching out a bit, then I just went my own pace until we met back up again.

I don't seem to tense up as much when I follow someone I trust into a turn. I keep my focal point on where they are, even when they are behind trees or rock. I use more of my peripheral vision to be aware of road hazards. When I don't have someone in front of me, my focal point is at the farthest point I can actually see. Which, in some corners, is only 10 ft ahead! (Hello Montezuma Rd)

I also talk to myself. Saying things like "stay clear of that sand, slow down until you see the path to take through those rocks, could you stop if there was a boulder/truck/tree down around this corner? be ready for those wild turkeys to turn into the road, ignore the squirrels because you don't know wtf direction they may go." I also say "lean down in the corner, the bike can do it, relax your arms, push with the inside hand, keep it smooth, more lean = tighter turn, look where you want to go."

I know I got some of those phrases from MSF. Some is from my early pilot training when my instructor used to always ask, "if the engine cut out where would you land?" until I got to the point that I had always had the answer in mind.

I think that's the way to do it. As for staying on the line, when you've already visualized where you're going to go, the bike just kinda follows (unless you're too fast).

 

[Neal]

I nearly always keep my line.

Almost all of my corrections mid turn are because I saw the line going in wrong.

 

[Nelly]

Hi Misti, I think it's a combination of things:
Getting the entry speed correct.
Forward observation.
Setting yourself up (as in body position) so your not busy trying to make lots of mid corner adjustments.
Practice.
Faith in the bike.
Courage.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

 

[Ssky0078]

Question for all; anyone flinch or change your line when cars/bikes come at you in the opposing lane?

Only one time I can remember actually 'flinching' and that was on 'The Snake' coming down from the corner everyone crashes in rnickeymouse videos. A car was coming up the hill and was going around a cyclist into my lane. I still pretty much held the line I had but was pretty dam close to the car.

I will change lines if someone is coming at me, but am generally comfortable with being close to traffic and having narrow safety margins.

 

[Ssky0078]

Hi Misti, I think it's a combination of things:
Getting the entry speed correct.
Forward observation.
Setting yourself up (as in body position) so your not busy trying to make lots of mid corner adjustments.
Practice.
Faith in the bike.
Courage.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

Probably one of the biggest things that has helped me corner with more proficiency. Getting my body position set up so that my lower body is in control of the bike and then the upper body is lose and used to manipulating lean angle and slight input on the controls.

 

[pulsar2]

Question for all; anyone flinch or change your line when cars/bikes come at you in the opposing lane?

I have started doing this recently. I usually ride clockwise around a loop, and recently tried the anti-clockwise loop and found it way too difficult to ride compared to the usual route. I could not navigate any of the corners confidently like before. Worse - the back wheel slid a couple of times, and I found white/grey gravel where it slid. This has spooked me enough that I dont look far ahead now to plan the next turn. Because of this, I keep running wide at the turns and flinch when I see another vehicle on the road. All in all, one mistake has led to another and now I am totally spooked to navigate the awesome curves that I used to enjoy every weekend. Maybe there is more gravel in this area, or maybe its all in my head. Or maybe I am trying too much on a new route too early.

Whatever the reason, I plan to keep riding this route until I feel confident with my riding again.

 

[FinalImpact]

I have started doing this recently. I usually ride clockwise around a loop, and recently tried the anti-clockwise loop and found it way too difficult to ride compared to the usual route. I could not navigate any of the corners confidently like before. Worse - the back wheel slid a couple of times, and I found white/grey gravel where it slid. This has spooked me enough that I dont look far ahead now to plan the next turn. Because of this, I keep running wide at the turns and flinch when I see another vehicle on the road. All in all, one mistake has led to another and now I am totally spooked to navigate the awesome curves that I used to enjoy every weekend. Maybe there is more gravel in this area, or maybe its all in my head. Or maybe I am trying too much on a new route too early.

Whatever the reason, I plan to keep riding this route until I feel confident with my riding again.

:thumbup:


Confidence, being relaxed, being sure of yourself all increase with time. I ride on the stickiest tires I can afford, have redone the suspension at both ends and am confident in the bike. That leaves most of it up to my skills to keep us out of trouble. I do hear you about one mistake leading to another and how it could be a set back. Any chance your just trying to hard?
Relax, take your time and slowly build those skills in a safe place!

 

[Misti]

Hi Misti, I think it's a combination of things:
Getting the entry speed correct.
Forward observation.
Setting yourself up (as in body position) so your not busy trying to make lots of mid corner adjustments.
Practice.
Faith in the bike.
Courage.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

Great points! Entry speed is huge as is forward observation and getting yourself set up nice and early.

I agree that faith in the bike and courage play a roll but I really think that things like improved visual skills and improved overall technique will help you have more courage and trust in the bike.

So let's look at entry speed as a good starting point. How do you go about making sure that your entry speed is set correctly? What kinds of things help make sure that you get it right?

 

[FinalImpact]

Great points! Entry speed is huge as is forward observation and getting yourself set up nice and early.

I agree that faith in the bike and courage play a roll but I really think that things like improved visual skills and improved overall technique will help you have more courage and trust in the bike.

So let's look at entry speed as a good starting point. How do you go about making sure that your entry speed is set correctly? What kinds of things help make sure that you get it right?

If you're wide going in, you need to brake earlier and/or initiate the lean sooner. Depending on the road and visibility, lane choice going in makes the transition smoother. Thats not to say you need to use the whole road, but roadside items can force a "mini-regroup" and change your line.

Misti, do you have any video or a friend who can follow w/film? It sounds like it would be good for you to SEE WHAT YOU DO!
Q? What tires you have? They really change how it feels.

SETUP:
Out here we have these bizzaro grooves that make the bike "feel" like its moving under me (and it is) and makes me uneasy. Also as the tires square off the more they are affected by these grooves. Perhaps tell us all you can about the setup you have too. If bumps are affecting your line, it may be part of your uneasiness is in the bikes setup.

 

[Ssky0078]

Great! Glad you like the questions and I think it is good that you take care with entering turns that you aren't really comfortable with. I'd also agree that the visual element of choosing your line and not getting distracted is the key to holding your line.

As you said, when your line of sight is clear you are happy.

But how can you work on improving your visual skills so that you are able to pick a clear and distinct line through corners? How do you ensure you don't get distracted or target fixate on something scary?



Someone answered that body position would help with improving your corner entry speed and while I agree that body position is important I'm not sure I follow how it will directly help improve your corner entry speed.

What do you think is the number one reason why some people can haul ass into a corner and some are more timid? Do you think they are looking at something different in the corner? Are they seeing things better? Are they flicking the bike over faster? Is it a combination of both?

Misti

I don't know if it's a mental thing for me because when I crashed my Fz6 it was because I was seated straight up and leaned in to a corner when the rear end lost traction. Ever since if I'm going to be pushing it at all (basically anything above the recommended speed limits (yellow and white signs) I will hang off a little. I've found that upon entry, similar to like when Marquez whill kick his leg in to shift the center of gravity with the bike helping with deceleration and setting up line, that if I shift over in the seat and then drop my body weight over the inside of the corner, the bike stays upright and I can go a lot faster coming in to the corner. I've found that if the bike is more upright I can maintain more throttle through the corner and get on the throttle earlier coming out of the corner.

For "basic" street riding, I don't see a need to hang cheeks and its more likely to upset the bike and blow you line thus causing real issues. A little too aggressive approach for learning the streets IMO.
Scan ahead, verify your clear for good grip w/out deviating from your position, your line is now set, so prep the bike by adjusting speed and gearing. Be smooth and keep looking ahead as you roll on the throttle past the apex.

There as so many variables its all about practice. Q? What stands out there is worthy of fixating on?

It may be a little aggressive. I do tend to ride aggressively. I used to drive aggressively when I still rode in a cage.

Trick question, the only thing out there worthy of fixating on is the open space that allows you to get through whatever situation safely (unless it's a cliff then lay that bike into the side of a hill, LOL).

 

[SweaterDude]

How many of you keep your line under all circumstances? More specifically; Until a recent tire change I found that I kept my line (visual forecast of our trajectory) 98% of the time (within an inch/2.5cm). Including situations where you literally thread the needle between pot holes in a corner. Street riding only. No track references here.
I pride myself in never going places I didn't intend to and as mentioned a recent tire change made me very aware of not keeping my intended path or forecasted trajectory going through a corner. For me being off by 6" means I failed to keep my line. On a recent 200 miles ride I found this happened about 4 times where before this, it was twice per season/5000 miles.

EDIT: REFERENCE is your mental line where you want the bike to be, which includes obstacles you must avoid. No track reference or lap times.

yeah i always do, even in the cage. i had a passenger in my car ask me why i weave the car in the lanes. confused i asked "what do you mean". they were referring to when i clip the apex of turns with the tires. i leave more margin with opposing traffic but i always do it. it feels weird to me to take an "improper" line through a corner....

i only miss/change my line in a corner when something unexpected happens.

 

[FinalImpact]

Friendly bump for new members to think about....

 

[aclayonb]

Just ran down US129 and it was all I could do to keep swiveling my head around to follow the next turn. I really can't say I maintained a line at all, per se, but rather entered a corner "close enough" and focused as far forward as I could see (which is very little). I didn't have time to care where I was on the pavement, except to notice that when I didn't worry about my line, I made it through the turns much more smoothly (and in my lane).

TBPH, I was probably riding entirely too fast for the road (45-70mph). There was a lot of "Oh $hit, hard right" followed by " Oh $hit, hairpin left", repeat, repeat, repeat.... and the rest was up to the subconscious.

My buddy, who was out there as well, almost tested his Harley's suspension on the side of a cliff. After the ride he asked me if I noticed the crazy dropoff's, etc, on the route. I didn't. I couldn't tell you what ANY of the surrounding terrain looked like - I never saw it.

Is it normal to get that intense "road-only" tunnel vision when you are riding hard through the corners like that?

 

[FinalImpact]

Just ran down US129 and it was all I could do to keep swiveling my head around to follow the next turn. I really can't say I maintained a line at all, per se, but rather entered a corner "close enough" and focused as far forward as I could see (which is very little). I didn't have time to care where I was on the pavement, except to notice that when I didn't worry about my line, I made it through the turns much more smoothly (and in my lane).

TBPH, I was probably riding entirely too fast for the road (45-70mph). There was a lot of "Oh $hit, hard right" followed by " Oh $hit, hairpin left", repeat, repeat, repeat.... and the rest was up to the subconscious.

My buddy, who was out there as well, almost tested his Harley's suspension on the side of a cliff. After the ride he asked me if I noticed the crazy dropoff's, etc, on the route. I didn't. I couldn't tell you what ANY of the surrounding terrain looked like - I never saw it.

Is it normal to get that intense "road-only" tunnel vision when you are riding hard through the corners like that?

IMO tunnel vision will come at a cost. That is, when all is well, "no", this doesn't happen. So it sounds like you're above your means and treading on sketchy ground. Perhaps its time to slow down...

 

[aclayonb]

I have no doubts about that.

 

[banjoboy]

I don't get the question, so I recon I just ride a round! :Flip:
Been ride'in forever, and purdie much every corner I go 'round, I see sumpin I coulda dun better. :don'tknow:
I'm usually able to put the bike where I want, butt most of my ride'in iz sport tour'in or dirt; challenging myself ride'in the strange. :spank:
I seldom ride the same roads that I'm familiar with.

 

[FinalImpact]

Boredom causes thread resurrection...