Need some help with brakes!

[blindmonkie]

If this is in the wrong section I apologize. I just recently purchased a fz6 that I knew had a front break problem. The bike has low(er) miles on it so I wasnt concerned about buying it. So the bike sat up( have no idea how long) and now after riding for a short distance the left caliper locks up. Now I have bleed the brakes and checked the lines. I pulled the calipers and cleaned them. Im not inept mechanically but im stumped on this. After reading on forums and such I have come to the conclusion that the caliper seals may be bad and need replacing. So any input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Welcome to the forum!!

What year bike do you have?

If you release the bleeder valves, each side, are they still dragging? Likely so which will confirm
the seals hardening and sticking with the pistons causing the drag

As the brake assemblies are different between the 04-06 models and the 07-09 models (fronts).

It does sound as if the seals are binding up. The 07+ bikes more often have issues as there's twice as many pistons/seals.

You can pull the pistons, clean etc, but you WILL be back in changing out seals shortly there after. You've already had 1/3 of the job done already, get new seals, clean internally (an air compressor is a big help). Partzilla, or some other on-line sites are a bit cheaper than the stealership

The seals are a minimum (unless already serviced) 7 years old up to 12 years old.. Yamaha recommends changing them
EVERY TWO YEARS.. Real life, 4-5 years.

If you can get roughly, 3/4 a "free hand turn" while on the center stand and front wheel raised, your ok. I doubt you'll get 1/4 turn right now.

I changed my seals out (2007 model) approx 3 years ago and still get almost 4 FULL TURNS.

If your somewhat mechanically inclined, you can change them out. Bleeding is the hardest part of the job IMO..

 

[blindmonkie]

Yeah probably should have said that originally but its a 2009. Also, thanks for the quick reply. To my knowledge they have never been serviced. The calipers had spiders in them so.....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Its really not hard to do and new seals make a world of difference..

Glad to see you bringing it back to road worthiness!

 

[Ninja Apprentice]

Welcome to the forum!!

What year bike do you have?

If you release the bleeder valves, each side, are they still dragging? Likely so which will confirm
the seals hardening and sticking with the pistons causing the drag

As the brake assemblies are different between the 04-06 models and the 07-09 models (fronts).

It does sound as if the seals are binding up. The 07+ bikes more often have issues as there's twice as many pistons/seals.

You can pull the pistons, clean etc, but you WILL be back in changing out seals shortly there after. You've already had 1/3 of the job done already, get new seals, clean internally (an air compressor is a big help). Partzilla, or some other on-line sites are a bit cheaper than the stealership

The seals are a minimum (unless already serviced) 9 years old up to 16 years old.. Yamaha recommends changing them
EVERY TWO YEARS.. Real life, 4-5 years.

If you can get roughly, 3/4 a "free hand turn" while on the center stand and front wheel raised, your ok. I doubt you'll get 1/4 turn right now.

I changed my seals out (2007 model) approx 3 years ago and still get almost 4 FULL TURNS.

If your somewhat mechanically inclined, you can change them out. Bleeding is the hardest part of the job IMO..

4...Full...Turns??? I do not comprehend...What language is this you speak?

New seals should fix the problem, I just wish they did not cost so much. What is it $40 a side? $80-$90 total?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

4...Full...Turns??? I do not comprehend...

Yes, 4 full turns/rotations.

Put the bike on the center stand. Raise the front wheel off the ground (I use a scissor jack under the header)

Put a small piece of duct tape on the side wall (so you can count the "rotations").

*Now, with all your might, SPIN the FRONT WHEEL and count how many times it rotates.

If its more than two times, without the tape, you won't be able to count the rotations. If really bad, say 1/2 rotation, you won't need the tape.

*(I currently get about 3.5 rotations since installed on 8-30-2012, about 8K miles ago, 13,200 miles at the time. They were $80, delivered back then)



A very simple check you can do is go for a ride (to say 50 mph) for 10 minutes.

Stop with the REAR BRAKE ONLY. Carefully feel the front rotors, they should be cool-cold IF NOT DRAGGING EXCESSIVELY.

Ca·peesh ??

 

[yamihoe]

maybe my math sucks but how do you get 9-16 years Scott? the FZ6 started in 2004, 12 unless you know of some super secret prototypes I need to go find!!!

but +1 on everything else! you ALWAYS have solid advice and help out everyone.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

maybe my math sucks but how do you get 9-16 years Scott? the FZ6 started in 2004, 12 unless you know of some super secret prototypes I need to go find!!!

Fixed it, my boo!! (The ONLY class I ever failed in my life was Accounting 1 in college, (1977), I changed my major!!!!)

7-12 years old- (04's being 12 years old now, 09's being 7 years old now).

In any case, ALL FZ6's should have their seals serviced, it does make a difference

 

[thisisbenji]

Soooo, I had my front wheel off and accidentally touched the front brake lever. It went in a by but I caught myself and the pads are rubbing worse than they were before (I think). Is there anything I can do to get the pads to back off a little more?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Soooo, I had my front wheel off and accidentally touched the front brake lever. It went in a by but I caught myself and the pads are rubbing worse than they were before (I think). Is there anything I can do to get the pads to back off a little more?

Simply put a large screw driver, piece of wood, etc in between the pads and push the pistons back in. (this is with the pads still installed)

If an S2 model, block the other pistons or they'll move outwards as you push the others inwards..

If you go too far, you'll be loosing brake fluid out of the master cylinder so pay attention.


If you have the pads off already, a "C" type clamp vise grip placed inside the piston will easily push it back in.
Again, the other pistons will want to come out so "block them off".

 

[thisisbenji]

Thanks I'm gonna give that a try!

 

[FinalImpact]

Thanks I'm gonna give that a try!

Before the server upgrade I had a bunch of pictures this topic. Basically pump out each piston and clean it with a shoelace by rapping it around the piston and pulling back and forth. Saturate lace with brake cleaner...
Also, if tie the lever down w a zip tie or basically anything it allows you to push in a piston which forces another out. You will QUICKLY SEE which are free and which stiff.
When done cleaning all 8 they all pushed in with my thumb.

Complete the process by manually bleeding them and hold the lever down and tap upwards on each caliper with soft mallet or piece of wood to dislodge any air bubbles and crack the bleeder.

Getting the air out aids piston retreat when the lever is released!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

**ADMIN**,

The e-mail notification of an additional POST is way longer than it should be and won't work.

I found this on a couple of threads this am...


[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]

@ FinalImpact

@ Cloggy

 

[The_Paragon]

Before the server upgrade I had a bunch of pictures this topic. Basically pump out each piston and clean it with a shoelace by rapping it around the piston and pulling back and forth. Saturate lace with brake cleaner...
Also, if tie the lever down w a zip tie or basically anything it allows you to push in a piston which forces another out. You will QUICKLY SEE which are free and which stiff.
When done cleaning all 8 they all pushed in with my thumb.

Complete the process by manually bleeding them and hold the lever down and tap upwards on each caliper with soft mallet or piece of wood to dislodge any air bubbles and crack the bleeder.

Getting the air out aids piston retreat when the lever is released!

+1!

My 2009 always has sort of draggy brakes since I got it 2013, I could never get more than say 1-1.5 turns out of the wheel, this spring I gave it new brake pads (30+k miles on the originals), I had one pad nearly worn completely out, while the other 3 were at 50-60%. So i definitely had one side of pistons sticking. I pulled each piston and seal out and cleaned it up and cleaned the caliper and reinstalled the old seal.

Now the piston that was dragging is free and I can get 4+ turn out of the wheel.. We'll see how long it remains nice and free once I get some ride time on it.

Something to think about for the people that don't want to drop $100 on seals..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1!

My 2009 always has sort of draggy brakes since I got it 2013, I could never get more than say 1-1.5 turns out of the wheel, this spring I gave it new brake pads (30+k miles on the originals), I had one pad nearly worn completely out, while the other 3 were at 50-60%. So i definitely had one side of pistons sticking. I pulled each piston and seal out and cleaned it up and cleaned the caliper and reinstalled the old seal.

Now the piston that was dragging is free and I can get 4+ turn out of the wheel.. We'll see how long it remains nice and free once I get some ride time on it.

.

I did the same thing exactly, Cleaned (and everything was pretty clean) AND used brake grease used for those seals.

It lasted about 9 months before it started dragging again. Bit the bullet and just changed them.


My old FJR (before the FZ) had the same issue (same calipers as the S2) and got REAL BAD/hot on the way home from a 800 mile road trip.

You couldn't touch the rotors (even when not used). Knock on wood I didn't burn up the rotors and I was able to save the pads..
Same calipers so I was pretty familiar with the procedure and neither had ABS or linked brakes..


The FZ, I stay local, but if I wanted to go for a road trip, I know I don't have to worry about the brakes locking up.

 

[FinalImpact]

FWIW; BRAKE BLEEDING, CALIPER AND PAD INSPECTION thread is here - minus pictures....

Go to post 7...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Something to consider re the purchase / install of new brake seals.

Tires and Brake seals...

I read here (and agree) about having tires that are NOT old, hardening, etc
and to keep the freshest set possible on the bike (for safety and performance) .

*The original BRAKE seals, (unless already replaced) are now easily 2-3 x's OLDER than your current tires.

The rubber the seals are made of ALSO hardens up, looses elasticity, sticks (over time) and
certainly are under CONSIDERABLY more pressure (hydraulic PSI).

Besides Yamaha recommending replacement EVERY TWO YEARS, would you leave (or ride safely) with your original tires
on?

To try and get 7 to 12 years out of a critical part, I would weigh my options a bit more..

Just my 2 cts...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks I'm gonna give that a try!

Any progress Benji?

 

[thisisbenji]

No it yet. It sounds like more of a weekend job to me. So I'll check it out either today or tomorrow.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

No it yet. It sounds like more of a weekend job to me. So I'll check it out either today or tomorrow.

Pick up some brake cleaner too and find an old tooth brush. It makes cleaning a bit easier...