buzzbomb

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One thing to add, tho I'd guess you know this already; the Sync screws control air volume only. So every time the CO is messed with, it impacts the idle AFR.
zap!

Ok, I spent a few hours working on the bike over the weekend, fired the bike up with the vacuum gauges hooked up, and tried different CO and IAC screw adjustments, and got it running pretty evenly, without any wubwub, and a steady 1260rpm idle. I spent a while trawling through posts on this site learning how the CO and IAC screws interact, which helped a lot.

The vibes were still there, so I thought I'd start looking at the engine and exhaust bolts. I took off the front 3 engine mount bolts (M10) and checked the alignment, they're pretty well centred, so it wasn't resting on the mounts.

On with the exhaust... I started with the headers and took them off, all good, then the cat pipe. After that was out I moved the muffler pipe and noticed it had a lot of side by side movement. After stripping the tail section off I found a 10mm bolt on the bottom right hand side of the muffler (muffler to indicator bolt, tucked up right next to the silver plastic exhaust cover) was loose. Everything else was tight, but this 10mm bolt was letting the muffler pipe move from left to right, and after it was tightened up it seemed much firmer. Still a bit flexible, but firmer.

Could this be the cause of my vibe problem? When the cat pipe and headers are bolted up this might have allowed the muffler to resonate/vibrate, but I won't be sure until it's all back together.
While I've got the headers off I'm going to touch them up with a bit of Hi Temp paint, as it was a few years since they were last painted. Once this is done and it's all back together I'll know for sure if this has helped or not.
I'll call back once it's back together to let you all know how I went! :thumbup:
 

FinalImpact

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Be sure to look at this....

  • Lastly are the two TBs matched? Is there any way someone messed with the blade offset between the two TB's??? It has a paint stripe. Can you tell if its been moved? This could cause your issues!
See the screw with the tensioning spring between the two TB?
Confirm its paint is still in the factor location.
picture.php
 

buzzbomb

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Be sure to look at this....

  • Lastly are the two TBs matched? Is there any way someone messed with the blade offset between the two TB's??? It has a paint stripe. Can you tell if its been moved? This could cause your issues!
See the screw with the tensioning spring between the two TB?
Confirm its paint is still in the factor location.
picture.php

I've thought of trying to adjust this to see if it could be the cause of the vibes but have tried to eliminate the more common causes first.

It's unlikely that it's been moved, as it's only been into the workshop twice, once for it's first service and once for the TPS recall, but it's a possibility.

I'll take the air cleaner off and have a good look at it and see if the paint marks are still intact.

I've read the thread by TownsendsFJR1300 (Un-Authorized Throttle Body Sync / Cleaning) and also this page that Scott linked to: https://home.comcast.net/~FJR-NERDS/FJR_Tech_Stuff/The_RDCUA_TBS.htm

And I'm thinking of using a ziptie to hold engine revs, but rather than wind the IAC screws in, just plug the two air pipes that feed from the air cleaner, so I won't have to redo the idle synch. I'll be able to see then if there's a problem between 1/2 and 3/4 cyls.

Once the exhaust is back on I'll give it a go!
 

FinalImpact

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Ahhh - new info. The TBs have been off.

If paint aligns as it not messed with, I'd leave it. Otherwise your plan for checking seems good except once again, too many other variable. Valve adj, compression, ignition.

That said, if your issues are at 7k, a fraction of a degree may not be that critical.

I used to use a syring and stop watch. Meter in equal amounts of say alcohol and verify they all leak at the same rate when closed.

You did say all the cap to wires screw down tight, yes? This continues to sound ignition related.... Just sayin...
 

buzzbomb

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You did say all the cap to wires screw down tight, yes? This continues to sound ignition related.... Just sayin...

I decided to retrace my steps and see if I missed anything, so I pulled the exhaust off and bolted it up again, and then moved back to the spark plug leads...

Lo and behold both 1 and 3 had become loose since I last did them, so I recut them, fanned out the wire strands and screwed them down, this time sliding the rubber grommet up onto the lead, and using long pliers to gently hold the lead while I screwed the cap on til it was firm. I've also tried 2 zip ties per lead, one in the usual position, and another on the other side of the grommet, where it meets the spark plug cap.

I'll recheck the throttle synch once it's fired up again, I've just got to wait for my new bolts to arrive- I checked the engine mount bolts where the slider/oggy knobs bolt on and one of the bolts was a bit bent, so I'm gunna bin them in favour for some brand new bolts.

I won't be torquing them down to 40ft/lbs tho, as I've heard problems of the threads stripping after they're removed and done up a couple of times. Maybe 30ftlb with locktite...

Anyway I can't wait to get the bike back together and go for a ride!
I'll check back to let you know if this has nailed it, but I'm feeling confident!
 

buzzbomb

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Ok just a bit of an update...

After looking at the sparkplug caps and getting them sorted, I spent some time reading up about the relationship between the CO values and throttle body synch, and found that the engine seemed happier on similar values to stock. It didn't run smoothly on 0,0 but was happier with a difference of about 12 to 15 between C1 and C2.

After another TB synch I got the low end smoother than it's been in a long time, from idle to around 4,000rpm is awesome, but the vibes come in from 5grand til redline. So there's still an issue. The paint on the adjusting screw inbetween the throttle bodies looks intact, and I couldn't spot cyls 1 and 2 pulling more or less vacuum than 3 and 4 on the manometer, so that seems ok.

Might be time for a valve check and comp test....
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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If the paint is intact with the TB CENTER screw(butterfly), don't screw with it..

And definitely torque the engine mounts to 40ft lbs. if your wrench is accurate, it isn't a problem. I wouldn't loctite them either.

I had a slight vib develop and found two engine mount bolts loosened to about 37/38. Torqued back up to 40, vibes gone..

Loctite will hamper accurate later checking the bolts. The frame and engine, both being aluminum expand and contract with the heat changes, aluminum "squishes". I think I've had to tighten my engine bolts maybe twice since 2009.

Also, put just a little dab of dielectric grease on the spark plug caps where they touch the valve cover. It'll make slipping them on and off CONSIDERABLY EASIER and you'll literally feel and hear them snap onto the spark plug.. A little easier on the wire connector too..
 

buzzbomb

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If the paint is intact with the TB CENTER screw(butterfly), don't screw with it..

I've been a bit reluctant to touch that centre screw as I'm not convinced it had been touched. Don't want to create more headaches!

Re torque wrench- Hmm, there's an idea, I'm not exactly sure how accurate my torque wrenches are. They were only cheapies, so it might be time to invest in something more accurate. I got 2 brand new bolts for the frame sliders and put them in dry, and wound them down to 40ft/lbs, and took out the rear engine thru bolts, the top one was starting to corrode, so I cleaned it up, put some fish oil on it and then reassembled. I kept the threads clean as they have locknuts so they didn't need any help with locktite.

Wow, so you noticed vibes at only 2 or 3 ft/lbs under recommended torque, that's interesting.

And re Dielectric grease- I love the stuff! I've been a recent convert to the stuff, and use it sparingly on lots of stuff. Found it heaps easier to seat the spark plug caps. I even used the stuff on the spark plug leads on my outboard motor!

Ok, next step will be to look at a compression gauge and decent torque wrench...

Thanks for your help! :)
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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I've been a bit reluctant to touch that centre screw as I'm not convinced it had been touched. Don't want to create more headaches!

Re torque wrench- Hmm, there's an idea, I'm not exactly sure how accurate my torque wrenches are. They were only cheapies, so it might be time to invest in something more accurate. I got 2 brand new bolts for the frame sliders and put them in dry, and wound them down to 40ft/lbs, and took out the rear engine thru bolts, the top one was starting to corrode, so I cleaned it up, put some fish oil on it and then reassembled. I kept the threads clean as they have locknuts so they didn't need any help with locktite.

Wow, so you noticed vibes at only 2 or 3 ft/lbs under recommended torque, that's interesting.

And re Dielectric grease- I love the stuff! I've been a recent convert to the stuff, and use it sparingly on lots of stuff. Found it heaps easier to seat the spark plug caps. I even used the stuff on the spark plug leads on my outboard motor!

Ok, next step will be to look at a compression gauge and decent torque wrench...

Thanks for your help! :)


Your welcome.. I have 3 Craftsman "clickers". Small, med and large. One I know, is off so I use that sparingly, if at all... Thinking about it, I'm going to pick up another one...

The dielectric grease, I learned about that product a couple years ago. Every plug, wire connector, bulb base (not headlights), gets a light coat of it.. And the spark plug caps, a BIG HELP as you've posted..

And yes, that couple pound looseness in the engine mounts, I felt it. When I start to get a minor vibration, thru the seat, on my rt cheek, its time for a TB sync.


BTW, on my old '04 FJR, it had an issue while under warranty, (before I bought the Carbtune). The shop wouldn't touch/diagnose W/O a TBS. $125 later, issue still not resolved. I later found a connector under the tank corroded.

I later bought the Morgan Carbtune (to help eliminate the vibs in the FZ). I checked the sync on the FJR and sure enough, they adjusted the painted spring screw. I could see the paint broken, the screw turned approx 1/4 turn. Same as the FZ, a No No. Put the screw back to the original position and re-adjusted using the air screws (same idea as the FZ but their a bit harder to reach).
 
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buzzbomb

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Woo Hooooooooooo!!!!

Finally I've pinned down the vibes! I redid the spark plug caps again and was a bit more aggressive, cutting back the spark plug leads by a good 15mm or more. Also I tried using a wrap of duct tape over the end of the lead, about 1cm wide. Only 2 of the leads were loose (2 and 3), so I just concentrated on them. I also pulled the caps apart and checked the resistance. One had very high resistance so it was cleaned up until the spring made good electrical contact with the brass insert inside the cap. Both caps were in spec so I put it all back together.

I took it out for a spin just after a rain shower, and was amazed! The vibes from 5,000rpm was gone, and it revved cleanly up to 11. I didn't punch it any higher, I was just happy that I don't have to keep looking for the problem. Half way through my ride I got caught in the rain and wind again... my legs were soaked and I was being blown around, but I couldn't wipe the smile off my face! The vibes were much reduced, back to how the bike used to be.

If the vibes come back I can go straight to the spark plug leads and redo them. Not sure how much more I can cut off them, so I've been considering the options of new coils.
The spark plug leads appear to have a plastic clip where they join with the coils, but I haven't seen anyone remove the leads. I hunt around on the net shows that the FZ6R/XJ6 coils have the same primary and secondary resistance as the FZ6, but being a different frame, they could mount in a different position and the leads might be shorter than the FZ6. The photos on ebay ( Yamaha XJ6 XJ6N XJ6F Diversion Ignition Coils Plug Caps LOW Mileage 2009 2012 | eBay ) show a different cap design, but after reading up on the service manual in the electical section it talks about checking the cap resistance, so they must still be a screw on design like ours.

A big thanks to everyone who has helped, especially FinalImpact and TownsendsFJR1300, on this thread and the many other threads on the forum!
;):D;):D;):D;):D
 

FinalImpact

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Good to hear! Did you see mine has bit me more than twice!?! Same issue. Not all wires are of the same quality and the connection really matters!

So, you can change your name now! lol

I'm sure mine will go to years end as is, but I'll be looking for a solution!

Thanks for post! Good to know you double checked and found the issue!
 

buzzbomb

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Yep it took a couple of goes to get it sorted, but I loved the feel of the bike once the vibes were gone.

Clearance was my biggest problem, as the S1 fairing is bulky, and even after dropping the radiator it was hard to get a hold of the cable. I had to use some long nosed pliers to hold the HT lead. I ended up taking the battery and airbox out and doing cyl 1 through the top, then feeding it back down through the rubber mat that sits on top of the engine.

It seems that Cyls 2 and 3 are more problematic than the others. If it happens again I'll probably leave off the zip ties and just use tape on the end of the HT lead, hopefully it'll compress the end of the lead as it's screwed in, so the insulation can't move and let the strands of wire migrate away from the screw connector. I'm interested to see if there are any permanent solutions to this issue, as it really spoils the bike when the HT leads start acting up.

Now I can look at a few suspension mods and not worry about that bloody vibration!
 

corvius

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Need some help. Replaced all the plugs with CR9EK's, the old ones looked fine but whatever. I checked to make sure the plugs were gapped right and they were all around .025. Cut 5mm off each lead, fanned out wires, tightened everything up. A little smoother but I have very noticeable vibes from 6.2k up to redline. Damn.

Pulled the SPC's off each cylinder and started checking resistance. 2,3 and 4 were all at 9.4~9.5. Great. 1 is at 10.4. Checked the resistance of the little ..well...resistor in there and it reads 10.4.

So I'm not sure what the solution is here, there's nothing to "clean up" with the connections since the resistor itself is high. Should I just order a new resistor or a new cap? Anyone have a part number off the top of their head? If not I can search ronayers. \

Thank ya'll
 

FinalImpact

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How many miles on the bike? Valve lash matters and it does impact the vibes.

As for the caps; others have had that much variance and not had issues. It doesnt make it right, it does alter how much current is delivered to the lug. Did you by chance measure the plugs resistance? I've seen them have that much difference!

You being specific about issues above 6k is sort of new. I wonder if there is a different cause here?

Any other chnages or history on the bike?
 

corvius

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Some more info:
2007, it has 8000 miles on it. I did not measure plug resistance, though. Since I had the caps pulled anyways I re-trimmed the lead wires again. I also cleaned the chain (PO definitely didn't do a good job of that...).

I took it out again tonight and same thing...I start to barely feel the vibes start at 4k, like...barely noticeable. At just above 6k the vibes very quickly ramp up as I get to 8k, they stay the same from 8k to redline.

This has the unfortunate effect of me keeping the bike under 6k, which kinda sucks :(

It's definitely engine speed dependent and not road speed dependent, as it could shake the same at 25mph or 75mph. Chain slack looks ok..I haven't checked rear wheel alignment since I didn't think it was based on speed, i.e., bike doesn't shake at 50mph when I'm at 4k (or thereabouts).


Total - you mentioned valve lash - is it normal on these bikes to be able to hear the valves clicking? If I listen carefully when I'm going slow (25mph) and I lean to the side I can hear something ticking away. Could that be an indicator that one of them is out of spec?

The only things left I can think of are: change the oil to Rotella T6 and maybe start putting 89 or 91 gas in it.
 

FinalImpact

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Somehow I doubt its valve lash, but yes, mine was Taping at 8 - 10k miles and at 20k I adjusted the valves. It Made it smooth, but i will say that when the ignition was at fault, it was far worse than the valves ever made it.
That said, I'd seen mine repeat the wire failure issue in as little as 2000 miles.

For me, the ignition makes this annoying numbing harmonic vibration that is nothing like a misfire or bad running bike. It runs great, it starts easy, it pulls 100%, but it makes you numb to ride it , well untill its corrected!

I doubt 1k in resistance is the factor but it could contribute to a bigger issue.
Can you be specific about what you feel?
 
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corvius

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Can you be specific about what you feel?

Bike is overall really clean. Fires up instantly, no strange noises. Idles steady around 1500-1700. Click into first, still sounds and feels great. Pull away just fine, nice and strong, no vibrations in the handle bars. Shift into second around 4k rpm, feeling fine.

Twist the throttle aggressively, I hit 4k, 5k, feels normal. At 6k I start to feel and hear the vibrations. I can tell I'm starting get into the powerband as throttle inputs start pushing the bike more and more. The vibrations feel like you're holding a metal rod that is touching a personal massager; like one of those hand-held ones. At 7k to 8k the vibrations increase to the point where I could not ride long with them like that or my hands would start to go numb. I can feel the same vibrations in the pegs, it feels like less vibes in the seat and the tank. At 8k I can start to hear pieces of the fairing/dash rattling at a high rate, nothing alarming, just like...taking one of those hand held massagers and putting it up to a piece of hollow, stiff plastic. (this is starting to sound erotic..:Flash:.)

It feels like it's coming from the engine; at least that's where my collective senses place the vibes. It's...kind of like has been stated before...harmonic in nature.

Other than the rattling plastic sound the bike sounds great through this range. If I duck under the windshield I can hear the engine and it sounds like a hornet, nothing out of place.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Check/ re-torque ALL your ENGINE MOUNTS with an ACCURATE torque wrench.


The frame "arms" tend to loosen and just a couple of pounds less than 40 Ft lbs does make a difference..

I could feel it when two of mine loosened up to 38..
 

corvius

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Some of the mounts were under spec. i put them to 41ft lbs. Marginal difference, not sure if there was a placebo effect or not. So I'm still open to suggestions ;)
 
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