What we have accomplished in Iraq

[lonesoldier84]

i called him a zombie, just not a communistic one

 

[lonesoldier84]

There is NO DOUBT that Hussain had weapons of mass destruction because he used them to kill many thousands of Kurd men women children dogs cats goats and any thing else that didn't get away in time. There is no doubt that the UN passed a resolution requiring inspections for weapons of mass destruction because he had them and used them. There is no doubt that he refused to alow inspections which would have shown he didn't have them. There is no doubt that the Saudi's and Kawati's believed it enough to alow the US to use their soil to invade another Arab country. With all of that people like lonesoldier continue to say that the US lied about weapons of mass destruction.We made the whole thing up. I don't know how he explains all those dead Kurds. He says the US is responsible for terrorism. The US brought it on them selves. There are people who say the US knocked down the twin towers themselves. That Russian thinks the Germans decided to build a wall around Berlin and kill their own relitives. He thinks the east Europens were gratefull to the Russians for enslaving them. The fact that they built a wall and killed any one trying to get away and sent tanks to invade and kill people who didn't toe the Russian line doesn't matter. The world is full of people and they believe what they want to believe. If the walls and the tanks and the thousands of dead Kurds and the skud missils landing in Iseral, Saudi Arabia and Kawiat, and the UN resolutions requiring inspections and the pentagon and twin towers isn't enough for them then i don't guess there is any point in wasting time trying to talk to them about it. Yes this thread has turned into a giant raging fight about Georgia it's sad that there is only one person in the raging fight. I'm sure the Georgians are gratefull to the Russians for killing them. What we have accomplished in Iraq,if nothing else, is to prove that Iraq doesn't have nukes or stores of chemical weapons stock piled. For that , every one in the region and the whole world should be grateful and sleep easier at night. Of course they aren't greatful but what can you expect from people?

i will direct your attention to the button immediately above your right shift key....

good day sir.

 

[formula154]

i will direct your attention to the button immediately above your right shift key....

good day sir.

If the US knew that the Iraqi's didn't have WMD and there were no terrorist groups there, I am curious what benefit you think the US would have gotten by invading Iraq. Daddy Bush already drove the Iraqi's out of Kuwait. The US had troops in Saudi and strong allies in Turkey, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. As far as I know Saddam wasn't planning to invade anyone in the near future so what reason did the son of a Bush have for invading with an army already in Afghanistan.

 

[FancaR]

Bush - аsshоle

 

[abner]

There is a clear pattern here... all the US members seem to think the Iraqi invasion was warranted, and the rest of the world thinks the US invasion of Iraq was self serving. :canada:

This thread is reflective of the brain washing that the US people and the rest of the world has endured. There has been talk about terrorism, Russia/Georgia, WWII, Afganistan, and a lot of other crap that has clouded the issue we are discussing... the US invading Iraq.

Fact: The Iraqi invasion had nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism. Bush called Sadam Hussain a terrorist, which people confused with the Bin Ladin terrorists held up in Afganistan that were responsible for 9/11.

Fact: Bush said that they were invading Iraq to save the people of Iraq, and to take weapons of mass destruction out of Sadam Hussains hands. These weapons were never found as admitted by Bush.

Plain and simple... the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN. There have been arguements here that certain countries vetoed the UN sanctioning of the invasion. I would highly doubt that is even possible... I think probably the truth is that there wasn't enough support from the 192 countries that make up the UN.

Has the US done some bad things in Iraq? Yes. Has the US done some good things for the Iraqi people? Yes, they have to inorder to save face and mend their relationship with the Iraqi people.

The big question is why did Bush invade Iraq?? IMO, economic gain, personally and nationally. Money makes the world go around. It USED to be that gold was the basis of the world economy, hence federal gold reserves. NOW in the industrial world, oil is the true currency. If you don't believe me have a look around your house and take notice of what you have that requires oil. Besides your FZ and other gas guzzlers, look at all your other synthetics, plastics, vinyls, and other petrolium based products. Now ask yourself... What imported product does the US most depend on? Where is most of the world oil? How affordable is it to the US economy?

All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong? :Flip:


:scared: FLAME AWAY!!!

 

[Nelly]

There is a clear pattern here... all the US members seem to think the Iraqi invasion was warranted, and the rest of the world thinks the US invasion of Iraq was self serving. :canada:

This thread is reflective of the brain washing that the US people and the rest of the world has endured. There has been talk about terrorism, Russia/Georgia, WWII, Afganistan, and a lot of other crap that has clouded the issue we are discussing... the US invading Iraq.

Fact: The Iraqi invasion had nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism. Bush called Sadam Hussain a terrorist, which people confused with the Bin Ladin terrorists held up in Afganistan that were responsible for 9/11.

Fact: Bush said that they were invading Iraq to save the people of Iraq, and to take weapons of mass destruction out of Sadam Hussains hands. These weapons were never found as admitted by Bush.

Plain and simple... the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN. There have been arguements here that certain countries vetoed the UN sanctioning of the invasion. I would highly doubt that is even possible... I think probably the truth is that there wasn't enough support from the 192 countries that make up the UN.

Has the US done some bad things in Iraq? Yes. Has the US done some good things for the Iraqi people? Yes, they have to inorder to save face and mend their relationship with the Iraqi people.

The big question is why did Bush invade Iraq?? IMO, economic gain, personally and nationally. Money makes the world go around. It USED to be that gold was the basis of the world economy, hence federal gold reserves. NOW in the industrial world, oil is the true currency. If you don't believe me have a look around your house and take notice of what you have that requires oil. Besides your FZ and other gas guzzlers, look at all your other synthetics, plastics, vinyls, and other petrolium based products. Now ask yourself... What imported product does the US most depend on? Where is most of the world oil? How affordable is it to the US economy?

All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong? :Flip:


:scared: FLAME AWAY!!!

You make some great observational points with your post. With which I generally agree with.
The problem that causes the division in wheather the invasion was right or wrong depends on the quality of information released by our respective by governments. To their respective people. People react to what they are told when they are told. The media fuels the feelings of the masses.
How the invasion got through the UN I don't know.
The majority of the people living in the UK did not agree with the invasion. This was greatly compounded by David Kelly's findings.
David Kelly (weapons expert) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do I think it was a war about oil? Yes.
Do I think Iraq will ever become a democracy? In the long term no.
Has Iraq benefited from Saddam's removal? I don't know I have not been there before or after.
Do I want our troops home? Yesterday please.

Regardless of the right or wrong, if your country mobilizes its young servicemen and women we have to do all we can to keep them safe and support them.

Nelly

PS there is no need to flame each other just for the sake of it. Opinions will be divided on this issue. Lets debate it and hear all of the respective points of view.

 

[Nelly]

^^^ The majority of the oil we import comes from...drum roll please....CANADA, followed by.....MEXICO. Not the Middle East (ME). The ME is the topic of our friends in Washington DC like to use as a scapegoat. Baaaaah, Baaaaah!

Also, little know factoid, Iraq now produces more oil than ANY TIME UNDER SADDAM. Also during the Surge, or as us in the Army call it, \"Plus Up\", there was more POWER available than any time under Saddam. Hummm...me thinks the media; left, right and in the middle wanted the US and the rest of the world to not know what was really going on.

(Blame my wife for the capital letters, she made killer Pina Coladas tonight) whew! :thumbup:

\"I'll have a cafe, mocha, vodka, valium, latte to go please!\"

My view is that it is not necessarily about the oil now. It's about a the oil in the future.
Having options to buy in the middle east at a pre-negotiated rate would be appealing to any country.


Nelly

 

[FancaR]

There is a clear pattern here... all the US members seem to think the Iraqi invasion was warranted, and the rest of the world thinks the US invasion of Iraq was self serving. :canada:

This thread is reflective of the brain washing that the US people and the rest of the world has endured. There has been talk about terrorism, Russia/Georgia, WWII, Afganistan, and a lot of other crap that has clouded the issue we are discussing... the US invading Iraq.

Fact: The Iraqi invasion had nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism. Bush called Sadam Hussain a terrorist, which people confused with the Bin Ladin terrorists held up in Afganistan that were responsible for 9/11.

Fact: Bush said that they were invading Iraq to save the people of Iraq, and to take weapons of mass destruction out of Sadam Hussains hands. These weapons were never found as admitted by Bush.

Plain and simple... the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN. There have been arguements here that certain countries vetoed the UN sanctioning of the invasion. I would highly doubt that is even possible... I think probably the truth is that there wasn't enough support from the 192 countries that make up the UN.

Has the US done some bad things in Iraq? Yes. Has the US done some good things for the Iraqi people? Yes, they have to inorder to save face and mend their relationship with the Iraqi people.

The big question is why did Bush invade Iraq?? IMO, economic gain, personally and nationally. Money makes the world go around. It USED to be that gold was the basis of the world economy, hence federal gold reserves. NOW in the industrial world, oil is the true currency. If you don't believe me have a look around your house and take notice of what you have that requires oil. Besides your FZ and other gas guzzlers, look at all your other synthetics, plastics, vinyls, and other petrolium based products. Now ask yourself... What imported product does the US most depend on? Where is most of the world oil? How affordable is it to the US economy?

All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong? :Flip:


:scared: FLAME AWAY!!!

+ 1 100% agree

Happy New Year!!!

 

[formula154]

((((((All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong?))))))))))))))

Like I have said. It is extreemly easy for people like yourselves to do nothing at all and then years later say what should have been done. Of course it was self serving who said it wasn't. Toney Blair supported the information that was avalible that they had WMD. Hussain could have end speculation if he
had followed UN mandates for inspections. Posion gass is a WMD which he did use in the war with Iran.Defiance of the UN mandate was reason enough to attack. If no one thought he had WMD then why did the UN pass the mandate calling for inspections. Is that the rest of the world disagreeing about WMD. Hussain did fire a few scudd missles at the begining of the war. Posession of the scudd missles was a violation of the mandate. The UN didn't have guts enough to back their own mandates. Europen countries didn't have guts enough to back the restrictions they passed against Germany after WWI and the world ended up in WWII as a result. The whole rest of the world is right they should pass mandates and then do nothing when they are defied to show what a bunch of gutless do nothings they are. Maybe that is why they are so quick to criticize the US. They resent us not being gutless and full of empty talk like they are.


((((((( There have been arguements here that certain countries vetoed the UN sanctioning of the invasion. I would highly doubt that is even possible...)))))))


That statement shows that you know absolutly nothing that you are talking about.

veto power

Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of nine members. A negative vote, or veto, by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required number of affirmative votes (9)


That is what I am talking about . People like your self that are so ignorant of the most simple basic pionts ,that the average 5 grader should know, mouthing off about and passing judgment on the US actions.

((((((((((((FLAME AWAY!!!))))))))))))
If I could think of anything to say that would be half as demeaning to you as you flaunting your ignorance on this public forum, I would.


:Flip: Look at me ever body I don't know nothin but I can shoot birds:Flip:

There is a clear pattern here... all the US members seem to think the Iraqi invasion was warranted, and the rest of the world thinks the US invasion of Iraq was self serving. :canada:

This thread is reflective of the brain washing that the US people and the rest of the world has endured. There has been talk about terrorism, Russia/Georgia, WWII, Afganistan, and a lot of other crap that has clouded the issue we are discussing... the US invading Iraq.

Fact: The Iraqi invasion had nothing to do with 9/11 and terrorism. Bush called Sadam Hussain a terrorist, which people confused with the Bin Ladin terrorists held up in Afganistan that were responsible for 9/11.

Fact: Bush said that they were invading Iraq to save the people of Iraq, and to take weapons of mass destruction out of Sadam Hussains hands. These weapons were never found as admitted by Bush.

Plain and simple... the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN. There have been arguements here that certain countries vetoed the UN sanctioning of the invasion. I would highly doubt that is even possible... I think probably the truth is that there wasn't enough support from the 192 countries that make up the UN.

Has the US done some bad things in Iraq? Yes. Has the US done some good things for the Iraqi people? Yes, they have to inorder to save face and mend their relationship with the Iraqi people.

The big question is why did Bush invade Iraq?? IMO, economic gain, personally and nationally. Money makes the world go around. It USED to be that gold was the basis of the world economy, hence federal gold reserves. NOW in the industrial world, oil is the true currency. If you don't believe me have a look around your house and take notice of what you have that requires oil. Besides your FZ and other gas guzzlers, look at all your other synthetics, plastics, vinyls, and other petrolium based products. Now ask yourself... What imported product does the US most depend on? Where is most of the world oil? How affordable is it to the US economy?

All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong? :Flip:


:scared: FLAME AWAY!!!

 

[formula154]

Bush - аsshоle

If you said that to bother me it didn't work. He is an ass hole and a moron to boot.

 

[formula154]

(((((((((All you Yankee patriots should ask yourself... is the rest of the world wrong?)))))))))))

You Canadians should ask yourselves, is there anything at all about this subject that you know anything at all about.

By the rest of the world maybe you mean Canada and Russia.

United Kingdom ,Australia, Poland, and USA all had troops fighting in the original invasion. I might be wrong but that looks like every English speaking country except Canada.

Contributions from Coalition member nations range from: direct military participation, logistical and intelligence support, specialized chemical/biological response teams, over-flight rights, humanitarian and reconstruction aid, to political support.

Forty-nine countries are publicly committed to the Coalition, including:
This number rose to 63. Notice how many countries there are that used to be members of the USSR and notice that every single founding member of the Warsaw pact (greatful members) except Russia is on the list.


Afghanistan
Albania Warsaw pact
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan :cheer:
Bulgaria Warsaw pact
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic Warsaw pact
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia :cheer:
Ethiopia
:cheer:Georgia :cheer: Yea Georgia!!!!!!!!
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania :cheer:
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland warsaw pact
Portugal
Romania warsaw pact
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine :cheer:
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan :cheer:

This number is still growing, and it is no accident that many member nations of the Coalition recently escaped from the boot of a tyrant or have felt the scourge of terrorism. All Coalition member nations understand the threat Saddam Hussein's weapons pose to the world and the devastation his regime has wreaked on the Iraqi people.

 

[abner]

Well Formula154, I'm glad you promted me to look at the UN Charter...

I think you should clarify how Article 27 reads, that is, the UN Security Council needs 9 affirmative votes of 15, 6 of those must come from all permanent Security Council members (China, France, Russia, the UK, the US, and Northern Irland). Hence, any of the 6 permanent members have veto power.

I won't pretend to know, and will leave this for you to answer... What was the vote count? Did any of the permanent members exercise their veto power?

You say that 60 of the 192 UN members are contributing to the effort... I'm not sure that less than 1/3 of the members is a ratio to be proud of when Article 25 states... the members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council. Not to mention that any or all of those countries could have given as little as $1 to the effort and be included in that list.

:canada: Canada did not send any troops into Iraq for the simple fact that it wasn't UN sanctioned.

Is it possible that the US thought Sadam had WMD because the US gave the weapons to Sadam during the Iran war?

BTW, I can't help it but wonder what your views are on racism... :rockon:

 

[formula154]

Bush - аsshоle

Nikita Khrushchev is an ass hole and he has a big ugly wart on the side of his nose.

 

[formula154]

Well Formula154, I'm glad you promted me to look at the UN Charter...

I think you should clarify how Article 27 reads, that is, the UN Security Council needs 9 affirmative votes of 15, 6 of those must come from all permanent Security Council members (China, France, Russia, the UK, the US, and Northern Irland). Hence, any of the 6 permanent members have veto power.

I won't pretend to know, and will leave this for you to answer... What was the vote count? Did any of the permanent members exercise their veto power?

You say that 60 of the 192 UN members are contributing to the effort... I'm not sure that less than 1/3 of the members is a ratio to be proud of when Article 25 states... the members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council. Not to mention that any or all of those countries could have given as little as $1 to the effort and be included in that list.

:canada: Canada did not send any troops into Iraq for the simple fact that it wasn't UN sanctioned.

Is it possible that the US thought Sadam had WMD because the US gave the weapons to Sadam during the Iran war?

BTW, I can't help it but wonder what your views are on racism... :rockon:

((((((BTW, I can't help it but wonder what your views are on racism...))))))


My views on contemptable trash that resorts to baseless inuendo would be much more appropiate. You are so simple minded that you took every thing I said completely out of context, or judging from your assanine cheap trash racism comment you may have done it on purpose. You are beneath talking to.

 

[wrightme43]

Well Formula154, I'm glad you promted me to look at the UN Charter...

I think you should clarify how Article 27 reads, that is, the UN Security Council needs 9 affirmative votes of 15, 6 of those must come from all permanent Security Council members (China, France, Russia, the UK, the US, and Northern Irland). Hence, any of the 6 permanent members have veto power.

I won't pretend to know, and will leave this for you to answer... What was the vote count? Did any of the permanent members exercise their veto power?

You say that 60 of the 192 UN members are contributing to the effort... I'm not sure that less than 1/3 of the members is a ratio to be proud of when Article 25 states... the members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council. Not to mention that any or all of those countries could have given as little as $1 to the effort and be included in that list.

:canada: Canada did not send any troops into Iraq for the simple fact that it wasn't UN sanctioned.

Is it possible that the US thought Sadam had WMD because the US gave the weapons to Sadam during the Iran war?

BTW, I can't help it but wonder what your views are on racism... :rockon:

One warning. I am not playing games. I will permaban you. Read the rules if you have any confusion about the rules of this forum.
You will not receive any other warnings at all.

Play nice or play somewhere else.

 

[FancaR]

Nikita Khrushchev is an ass hole and he has a big ugly wart on the side of his nose.

realy ?????

2 answers to the same post ) 6 hours you searching, who an аsshole from among general secretaries in cccp ?

 

[wrightme43]

LOL LOL

UMMM All of them???
Just like all over ours???
LOL LOL


Do you think if we removed the brains from all the politicians, ground them up to a fine powder we could make some sort of vaccine for it???? LOL LOL

 

[formula154]

The truth is that I don’t believe everything the US government says. I don’t believe everything any government says. As far as I can tell they all lie and look out for themselves. That is OK if they don’t screw other people over in the process. I don’t think the people of
Yugoslavia wanted to be dominated and controlled by the Russians for 50 years. While the Russians were there, there was peace in Yugoslavia. When the Russians left the different ethnic groups that made up Yugoslavia started killing each other and just about destroyed the country. There are different ethnic groups (or tribes) in Iraq. There was relative peace while Hussein was there because he killed every one who didn’t toe the line. The US removed Hussein. If the US just walks out of Iraq I think the country will collapse into total chaos. There will be more dead people there than they can bury. The different terrorist groups will claim that they drove the US out. They will make the terrorist problem in the entire world that much worse. They will believe they can defeat the US then they can destroy Israel and any one else. Whether we should have gone or not is debatable, but we did go and now they had better come up with some way to get out with out leaving a power vacuum there.

 

[abner]

:ban:

Wrightme43, I've read the rules, can you tell me where I broke them?

I simply stated that I question the mans views on racism. I am guilty of stereotyping Formula154 as a gun loving war monger from the south, however I did not publicize it. If you find that offensive, you may want to consider banning the members who are name calling and using profanities to describe the politicians being discussed, these same members you LOL along side of. :eyebrow: Lets make sure we have equal enforcememnt of the rules for everyone.

I am a Canadian, and live in one of the most peaceful and ethnicly diverse countries in the world, and at no time did I make a racist remark. :don'tknow:

 

[Nelly]

The truth is that I don’t believe everything the US government says. I don’t believe everything any government says. As far as I can tell they all lie and look out for themselves. That is OK if they don’t screw other people over in the process. I don’t think the people of
Yugoslavia wanted to be dominated and controlled by the Russians for 50 years. While the Russians were there, there was peace in Yugoslavia. When the Russians left the different ethnic groups that made up Yugoslavia started killing each other and just about destroyed the country. There are different ethnic groups (or tribes) in Iraq. There was relative peace while Hussein was there because he killed every one who didn’t toe the line. The US removed Hussein. If the US just walks out of Iraq I think the country will collapse into total chaos. There will be more dead people there than they can bury. The different terrorist groups will claim that they drove the US out. They will make the terrorist problem in the entire world that much worse. They will believe they can defeat the US then they can destroy Israel and any one else. Whether we should have gone or not is debatable, but we did go and now they had better come up with some way to get out with out leaving a power vacuum there.

This is the first post of yours that I fully agree with on this subject. That does not mean to say that I do not respect your right to have an opinion. It will happen as you predict, there are no two ways about it unless a UN presence is maintained in Iraq. Civil war will ensue. Possible options may be a division of territories?
Going back to the UN sanction I was never sure whether there were enough votes?
This issue was cleverly clouded by our Governments spin and the medias inept reporting.
It is common knowledge, that Kofi Annan, the Secretary General of the United Nations, "said I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."
This makes the whole issue of the legality of the invasion even harder to understand. We also have to acknowledge that if the member countries of the UN thought it was legal they would have also joined the coalition. A member country who signs up to the UN is expected to act within its mandates and policies. The lack of clarity made it easier for countries to opt out.

I have really enjoyed and learned alot from this thread, apart from some of the smart remarks and name calling.

Cheers
Nelly