Advice from Experienced Group Ride Leaders Needed

[DefyInertia]

Talking about small groups of 2 to 4 riders in total. My ride this weekend will be me and ONE OTHER person.

I've not had the opportunity to lead a lot of group rides. I've been lead by some great people and have learned a lot about being a leader in the process but am looking for some tips for this weekend.

Here are the facts:

• 200 miles on Saturday, 200 miles on Sunday. These will be 9 to 11 hour very twisty mountain and coastal rides with lunch etc. mixed in. Some technical stuff, some fast sweeper stuff, very few straights. I'm familiar with 95% of the roads we'll be on but we planned out the routes with Google maps so he knows what he's getting into.
  
  
• The other rider just bought a 2002 VStrom1000 as his second bike. He's 25, passed the MSF, and had a V-star cruiser prior to this. He's been without a bike for about a year. He had around 10,000 miles on the cruiser much of which was highway. He has less than 1,000 miles on the new bike.
  
  
• He's a very mature and smart 25 y/o (I'm his superior at work)
  
  
• He'll be wearing kevlar jeans, a jacket, helment, and I'm not sure about the gloves or boots. I've offered my other 2-piece but he said no thanks.
  
  
• I will be running a pretty spirited pace regardless of his. I will very happily wait for him as needed.

My primary concerns as are follows:

• I want to be a good role model for him as a rider (covers a lot). We've been talking quite a bit since he started shopping a month ago so...
  
  
• I want to make sure he rides his own ride [emphasis added]
  
  
  
• I want him to feel comfortable riding with me in the future

My thoughts on how to accomplish all this:

• Pre-ride conversation will cover lane splitting (it will take us about 8 miles of urban/highway before we're on the uber twisty roller coaster stuff), pace and riding your own ride, passing, waiting at intersections, ICE info and my 1st aid kit, stopping for pictures, tire pressue, and.....
  
  
• I plan on discussing gear, maintenance, etc. casually during breaks and over lunch

*****************

Looking for advice on:

• What to talk about
  
  
• How to talkk about it
  
  
• Group ride techniques as applicable to this situation
  
  
• Other?

Thanks everyone :thumbup:

PS - pics on Sunday :rockon:

 

[scottsst]

this is what I use

Show up with a full tank.
* Tire pressures should be checked and chain tension set
Before the group leaves:
* Pick a leader. It is the leader’s job to communicate the intended route, pick a safe speed, and not loose people. The leader should pick a “flavor” for the trip, such as “you better have your pucks on”, “aggressive”, or “enjoy the scenery”. Good resource for possible trip routes:
* Pick a sweep (trailer). It is the trailer’s job to stop with anyone that has problems, and prevent people from getting lost. If there is going to be a long delay, the sweep should send one rider ahead to the front of the group (who should be parked and waiting). The leader and sweep should have cell phones and know each other’s numbers.

* If there is not cell phone coverage, and if the sweeper stops with only one bike, then the leader should stop and send back a rider.

* If there are lots of bikes (more than 11) consider breaking into a fast and slow group, and picking points to meet along the way.

In Route and Speed:
* If you are inclined to take the bends on the fast side, start out the ride towards the front of the pack. If you are inclined to slow down for bends, start out more towards the back. In this way, when the group encounters a bend, there will be a natural spacing that will be the safest, as the faster bikes pull away a little, and the sane people get a bit of open space.

* On the straights, if you think the group is going too fast, just go the speed you like, and let some people pull away. It is the responsibility of the people in front to either slow down, or wait at the next intersection. If you can't see the person behind then you need to slow down or stop for them. Do not be pressured into riding faster than you like.

* Passing is fine, do it safely on straights, not in the middle of bends and NEVER on the right side. When passing, make a complete lane change. Do not share a lane when passing (even when passing on the left side) unless the rider ahead of you has pulled over to the far right of his lane and CLEARLY waved you to pass.

* Never tail gate, a good rule of thumb: Your distance to the rider in the front should be such that you can see his entire face in his mirror. (Of course, doesn't apply to SBK folks with their useless mirrors!)

* If you want to go faster than the group, you can break off, pass the group and signal the ride leader good-by.

* If the group gets split into 2 sections by a traffic light or whatever, do not break laws or endanger people to catch back up. The front pack will slow or stop when it is safe and allow the back group to catch up.

Riding in two lines in one lane
* On highways, AS DIRECTED by the lead's hand signals, ride in alternating sides of the lane so we can see each other better, and have more room between bikes. Allowing 2 seconds behind the bike in front of you, which is 1 second behind the bike on the other side of the lane is normal.

* When there are special conditions, the leader will use the 1 line hand signal (bicyclist, narrow road, sand on the road, etc.)

* When the road is not a boring straight, assume everyone will be going back to single line, give people some room to enjoy the road. When in doubt, assume single line!

* Keep a tighter staggered formation once on city streets (to keep cars from filtering in between and also to help avoid leaving part of the group at a red light).

* Two-at-a-time thru STOP SIGNS helps keep the group together.

Signs:
AMADirectlink -- Group Riding/Common hand signals with one addition. Tapping the top of your helmet either means you are telling someone behind that their high beams are on, or that they see a cop. If your high beam is not on, you would be wise to slow and look for cops.

Appendix:
Suggestions:
* Visit a rest room before the group leaves
* Clean your visor
* Bring appropriate clothing (for safety, warmth, rain)
* Bike should really be functioning well (tight steering head, reliable clutch, functioning brake lights, etc.)

The Pace, good article http://www.ridehsta.com/html/safety.htm

 

[OneTrack]

A spirit of competition can develop quite quickly on group rides, whether it comprises 2 riders or 22 riders, regardless of skill set.
The fellow accompanying you on the VStrom will probably feel pressure to keep up to you, contrary to what you tell him ahead of time. The greatest danger is him losing contact with you, when he may feel some pressure to catch up to you, which may result in him over extending himself to get you back in sight again. In my experience, most crashes on group rides occur when somebody is trying to catch up, even if they are quite skilled. It just takes one corner taken too quickly and clumsily, where forces suddenly build up that neither the rider nor the bike can control, resulting in the inevitable off.
Been there, done that.
My advice would be to cool your (obviously very skilled) jets a bit and "keep up with the person behind you". It'll certainly be a safer and more fun ride for your friend.

 

[ozzieboy]

One of the things I'd agree can put a bit of pressure on folks is overtaking maneuvers. I'd suggest bringing this up and reassuring folk that you'll be waiting at turns etc. and perhaps even back off and wait 'til they have gotten past as well. A badly executed overtaking maneuver can turn bad real fast.

Maybe discuss waving people by too. If someone is feeling under pressure from the rider behind them they won't be concentrating fully on what they are doing, and may try too hard.

Sorry I can't be more help...I've only led rides with noobs really and took it really slowly....they were very noob...lol...getting wobbly as soon as they started leaning.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Hollywood416]

I end up leading most of the rides I go on because most all I ride with are less aggressive than me(or just less insane lol) and all said above is good advice. That being said the way I deal with having slower riders behind and still have my fun is I do my burning it up through the curves and slow down on the straights if they don't come into site by the end of the straight I stop even if it's just a quick pause in the middle of the lane. Generally speaking there shouldn't be anyone between you and them to worry about being in the way. If you end up getting that far ahead of everyone else you might as well just ride alone. Defeats the reason of group rides. That way there's never been more than a few curves between you and them so if they don't show up you don't have to search over the last 5 miles to find them should they have an off.

What got me started with that was last year when I had my off in the mountains it was right at the top I had been blistering all the corners and straights from the bottom about 10miles I would guess. By the time the group caught me I had already taken off my gear, picked up the bike, accessed damage and started cleaning it and myself up. Bike stopped 8" from going over the side into a ravine I was luckily much further away from the side than it. Had I went over with the bike though they would have had no idea where to look for me and if it would have been one of them the same. Just food for thought.

 

[rider1a]

this is what I use

Your list is excellent.

I would add that the ride leader should get everyone's cell phone number and the person to contact in case of an emergency/accident. The sweep rider should also get the list of numbers as well including the ride leader just in case. Many of us know, but you should have ICE (in case of emergency) listed in your cell phone directory that points to the person responsible for making medical decisions on the riders behalf. If it is a really long multi-day trip, getting everyone's blood type may sound paranoid but could help medics in event of a serious mishap.

Having led many group motorcycle trips and learned a great deal, I would tailor the ride/route for the skills of the least able rider. Group rides can be fun or dreary depending if each group ride member has a different version of what to expect, speed and the duration of stretch stops etc.

Fred

 

[mstewar1]

...
My advice would be to cool your (obviously very skilled) jets a bit and "keep up with the person behind you". It'll certainly be a safer and more fun ride for your friend.

+1 on this.

Nate, you'll have a great many other days on which you'll be able to get your groove on. If you're at all concerned about where this rider is skill-wise, ride at a pace that allow him to see and experience the ride -- rather than having to ride alone, trying to catch up, trying to keep from f'ing up. Set the example. Ride The Pace. (Have you had him read that yet?)

Keep the instruction to simpler concepts such as body and lane position, vision, staying smooth.

I'm sure jealous, Nate. I know you're a very experienced rider and by now probably know way more local rides than I do -- and I've been living in the Bay Area for 20 years now.

Oh yeah, and I don't recall if the first responder mentioned hydration. There's been talk of potty breaks, but staying hydrated on such long rides is critical. He should have a camel bak or some other means for carrying fluids.

Looking forward to the post-ride report and pics!

 

[DefyInertia]

Ok guys, I think you're right. I'll ride real chill and see how it goes. If he's looking pretty good and wanting to pick it up, I'll pick it up. If I'm real comfortable about him as the day progresses, I'll pick up my pace in the corners and go extra slow in the straights to compensate.

I'll post Saturday night with comments on my revised approach to Sunday.

I have not recommended the pace or explained why I'll be wearing a 2-piece leather suit complete with track boots, track gloves, a back and chest protector. I have not talked to him about lane position or any sort of riding skills. I don't know where he stands exactly and I don't want to come on too strong about anything. Shyt, he might leave me in the dust for all we know.

FWIW, I don't consider myself a "very experienced rider"....I'm certainly striving for that though.

 

[necrotimus]

I am in no way an experienced ride leader but my one suggestion is if you don't have a communications system is make a plan for if you get completely seperated. This will lessen the need for someone to speed or get anxious if they are left behind.

Also someone recently posted an article called "The Pace" that talked about group rides that was very informative. I have to go to a meeting otherwise I would find the link for you.

 

[Fz6Sa]

this is what I use


Signs:
AMADirectlink -- Group Riding/Common hand signals with one addition. Tapping the top of your helmet either means you are telling someone behind that their high beams are on, or that they see a cop. If your high beam is not on, you would be wise to slow and look for cops.

show a difference in culture , - I was, back in my beginner days, always told that the "Tap-on-Helmet" was, - "I did not get that", - either due to bad radio connection or not getting someone's hand signals......

 

[Dunny]

I am by no way an expert but I have riden in a lot of conditions and in small and large groups, I road for employment for many years which required formation riding and high speed riding at times, we were all trained in the same course. However as mentioned skill levels variy which can cause tears if your not careful

Go out have a good day discuss road craft, safety and an aggreed set of signals you can use between each other.

You said you know the road and your mate doesnt, so stick with him, many accidents have occured whilst trying to catch up on unfamiliar roads.

I could go on and on. A moto I always use when I leave home is

"I want to get home today".

Enjoy

 

[Hellgate]

I think the most important thing is to stress to him not to feel pressured. He needs to ride at his pace and comfort level, which will be pretty slow for you. If he feels obligated to keep up he could get in over his head.

Many years (25ish) ago I "lead" a ride up a twisty canyon in Colorado. I'd ridden it a million times and knew every corner. The other three ridders were true novices, they only commuted from their apt to school and back. I lead a moderate pace and we re-grouped from time to time. Well that worked great until we got to a technical section with a decreasing radius corner...my buddy crashed and broke his wrist, the guy following him fixated, when over the armco into the river and the third guy just laid it down.

Needless to say that sucked.

Just take it easy and let him safely learn on this trip. It will be fun and come Monday at the office he'll be telling all kinds of fun stories. : )

 

[keira]

I am not an experienced leader, but I am an experienced group-rider, and my biggest piece of advice (which seconds others') is to not get too far ahead, especially if he is not aware that you might do this. I have been left on rides because the folks behind me were not experienced and htose ahead were taking the road much faster than I/we were comfortable with givent he conditions, and if I were less comfortable with the area, I would have been panicked about not knowing where I was going, being left behind, etc. It just makes for a nervous rider, even if he doesnt try to keep up with you and ride above his skill level. Have these conversations before you start.

You can always speed up after the first stop if he feels like you're going too slow.

 

[DefyInertia]

Bump for any more last minute advice....thanks again.

 

[OneTrack]

Wave him past on a nice, clean straight once in a while.....he'll be thrilled to bits with that and will brag about passing you for the next couple of years.
It'll also give you a chance to critique his riding style and skills. He'll most certainly appreciate that.
He'll wave you to pass him again inside 10 minutes...guaranteed.

 

[Soap]

If it was me mate, as long as you emphasise that he has to ride at his own pace and make sure you are both ready and know to stop for each other if one gets too far ahead I would leave it at that otherwise it will be like being back at work and he may not want to come again!

 

[DefyInertia]

Today was a blast!!!!!

250.4 miles....230 of which was grade A pavement. :thumbup:

Dude rode his own ride, never crossed the yellow or did anything else sketchy. He's a total natural...asked a ton of questions but was running a very good under control pace. Everything meshed well....we're on for another 200 tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the advice.

:rockon: