Body Weight vs. Shock Setting

[trampld]

Great question for a thread...

I am 260lbs and still at the stock setting because I honestly wanted to get a feel for the stock setting before changing anything - this plan must have slipped my mind though, because it has been 7000+ miles and I still have not tried any other settings. Sounds like I need to at least bump it to a 4, maybe even a 5 to start.

 

[reiobard]

sounds like i should be setting mine on 5 when i get the bike back...

 

[Hellgate]

The nice Ohlins with a remote is about $695, with out a remote, $525. Hyper Pro is $525. The retailers will install the correct spring weight for you based on your weight and the type of riding you do, touring, commuting, track, and the type of ride you prefer, softer, firm, etc.

I'm leaning towards the Ohlins w/o the remote, however once I put the stock shock on "4" the ride was much better.

Another easy and inexpensive mob you can do to the fork is make a longer preload shim, (I've used quarters - coins - in a pinch at the track) and you can drain the stock oil, 7 weight and put in 15 weight.

 

[trampld]

The nice Ohlins with a remote is about $695, with out a remote, $525. Hyper Pro is $525. The retailers will install the correct spring weight for you based on your weight and the type of riding you do, touring, commuting, track, and the type of ride you prefer, softer, firm, etc.

I'm leaning towards the Ohlins w/o the remote, however once I put the stock shock on "4" the ride was much better.

Another easy and inexpensive mob you can do to the fork is make a longer preload shim, (I've used quarters - coins - in a pinch at the track) and you can drain the stock oil, 7 weight and put in 15 weight.

Good info - but it left me with more questions...
Adding the preload shim made the shock firmer, right? How is it done?
as for the stock oil at 7 weight - moving to a 15 weight should also make it firmer, right? are there weights between 7 and 15?

 

[Hellgate]

Good info - but it left me with more questions...
Adding the preload shim made the shock firmer, right? How is it done?
as for the stock oil at 7 weight - moving to a 15 weight should also make it firmer, right? are there weights between 7 and 15?

Great questions Trampld.

Remember we are only taking forks here, with the rear shick it is what it is. But you can adjust pre-load on your shock.

The shims add to firmness by taking up part of the softer travel that the fork will move through. In other words it is putting you into the firmer part of the spring sooner. Also it is introducing more compression into the spring sooner. You add compression when you sit on the bike and/or travel over a bump. Maybe an engineer can add to this? Our stock fork spring is a dual weight spring, with a good percentage of it being light, I THINK it is .80, and the firmer part is 1.00. But most of our travel occurs in the .80 range. My race tech springs are one weight for the whole spring, .90. DI uses .95.

The thicker oil will do two things for you, increase both compression and rebound damping. Because the oil is thicker it take more energy to force it through the ports (holes) in the damping rod. This will add to firmness too. The rod is in the bottom of the slider of your fork.There are a variety of fork oil weights, 10, 15 and 20 are most common.

It is a bit of work to get the oil out of the fork leg however. For some reason, I'm sure to keep costs lower, there is not an oil drain port. So that gives you two options, 1) Remove the fork legs completely from the bike and pour it out or 2) Use a vacuum pump to pump it out. DefyInertia covers #1 in very good detail on his spring install thread (and other spring thing too). I've got a thread on the pump process too. Look in the Mods section. The cool thing about oil is you can mix two oil weights together and make your own weight. ie: half 10, and half 15, gives you 12.5. Its a bit of a pain but we don't have many options here.

As HavBlue stated you can introduce air pressure. We do not have a fitting to do this but you can kind of fake it. 1) jack the front of the bike up (a one gallon paint can under the header will do this very well). Your fork legs are now fully extended. Now remove your fork caps and then reinstall them. Now the caveat...I have no idea how the fork is built by the factory. I assume they are assembled fully extended so this may not do anything. However if you do open the caps up and do not fully extend the fork leg, and then replace the cap, you will no longer have the correct volume of air in the leg. When it does extend it is in effect creating a vacuum inside the leg. (yeah i know this is small but for most guys our fork is way under sprung). I'm sure a motivated person could have the fork caps drilled and tapped and add a Schrader valve.

Another way to increase the "effective" volume of air is to increase the amount of oil in the leg. Because you are replacing air, which compress, with oil that does not, the "effective" air pressure is increased. The stock amount of oil is about 400ml, you can add 50ml to it. Make sense???

I hope this helps, this area is my number one gripe about our bike.

 

[DefyInertia]

Regarding the shock, set your preload to result in an acceptable amount of sag for your weight and riding style.....I just posted in the preload poll thread....

But......I've got R6S forks and an Ohlins 3-way HRC

 

[Hellgate]

Regarding the shock, set your preload to result in an acceptable amount of sag for your weight and riding style.....I just posted in the preload poll thread....

But......I've got R6S forks and an Ohlins 3-way HRC

Lucky dog! :Flip:

 

[madmanmaigret]

Defy can you explain to us noobs how and where to measure the sag?

 

[madmanmaigret]

It is a bit of work to get the oil out of the fork leg however. For some reason, I'm sure to keep costs lower, there is not an oil drain port. So that gives you two options, 1) Remove the fork legs completely from the bike and pour it out or 2) Use a vacuum pump to pump it out. DefyInertia covers #1 in very good detail on his spring install thread (and other spring thing too). I've got a thread on the pump process too. Look in the Mods section. The cool thing about oil is you can mix two oil weights together and make your own weight. ie: half 10, and half 15, gives you 12.5. Its a bit of a pain but we don't have many options here.

Top, could that same motivated person drill and tap a hole for an oil drain? This, to me, sounds easier than a schrader valve (I know its for two different purposes)

 

[trampld]

Thanks a bunch for the detailed response! See my comments in blue in the quote below:

The shims add to firmness by taking up part of the softer travel that the fork will move through. In other words it is putting you into the firmer part of the spring sooner. Also it is introducing more compression into the spring sooner. I get what the shims do to change the way the spring 'acts' but where/how are the shims added?
It is a bit of work to get the oil out of the fork leg however. For some reason, I'm sure to keep costs lower, there is not an oil drain port. So that gives you two options, 1) Remove the fork legs completely from the bike and pour it out or 2) Use a vacuum pump to pump it out. DefyInertia covers #1 in very good detail on his spring install thread (and other spring thing too). I've got a thread on the pump process too. Look in the Mods section. Sounds good - I will have a look for the threads - though I am leaning towards the vacuum approach...
I'm sure a motivated person could have the fork caps drilled and tapped and add a Schrader valve. This sounds like a good way to go - just not sure about the 'appearance' of the valves.

Another way to increase the "effective" volume of air is to increase the amount of oil in the leg. Because you are replacing air, which compress, with oil that does not, the "effective" air pressure is increased. The stock amount of oil is about 400ml, you can add 50ml to it. Make sense??? Makes perfect sense!

 

[DefyInertia]

madman, in the most basic sense, you're just measuring how much the bike sags/compresses when you're on it (wearing gear, feet on the pegs, in the riding position) as compared to when you're not. Grab a friend and a measuring tape, don your gear, pick a spot on the swingarm and the tail, and you're good to go.

trampld, to add shims you'll need to remove the fork caps, drop them in, and then muscle the forks caps back on (pretty simple really but it may require removing the handle bar from the clamp for a moment). Be sure to measure fork sag before and after....and know what you're going for prior to putting too much effort into this.

 

[Hellgate]

Top, could that same motivated person drill and tap a hole for an oil drain? This, to me, sounds easier than a schrader valve (I know its for two different purposes)

God I have got to work sometime today... :thumbup:

Okay two different things here. I have not idea where to drill a hole in the bottom of the leg. Things to consider are the leg traveling inside the slider and making sure it wouldn't hit the screw that would be used to plug the hole. I'm sure a good machine shop could do, but the whole fork would have to come apart.

The schrader valves are only for air. Back in the day you could buy these pretty much anywhere. From what I understand most suspension tuners have moved away from using air as a spring. The reason is the density of the air varies with the temprature within the shock. In other word it is not consistant like a spring. My old GS had them and I only used 3 to 5 pounds in each leg, and that was with Progressive Suspension fork springs in.

With the Race Tech or the Hyper Pro I don't think one would need air.

Now one mod that would be nice is adding an adjustable preload knob to the fork cap. I don't think it would be too hard to make. All you need is to thread the cap (not sure how much material is in the cap) get an Allen bolt thread it in with Teflon tape and them weld a flat plate on the bottom. I'd also add a lock nut on the top of the cap to hold the bolt in place.

Hummm....Give me 6 to 8 weeks may be I can get some fab'd up.

 

[HavBlue]

If you folks want to get serious the cheap way you can take the cap bolt off, drill and tap it for a piece of all thread. Inside the fork you will find a long shim and then the front fork spring. On the underside of the all thread you will need to weld a washer that is the same size OD as the long shim. Put the cap bolt back on and torque it to 17 ft. lbs. or 24Nm. When you run the piece of all thread down it will pre-load the fork spring and you are now adjustable.

All you have invested is your time, the price of the all thread, a pair of washers and some welding.

 

[HavBlue]

The schrader valves are only for air. Back in the day you could buy these pretty much anywhere. From what I understand most suspension tuners have moved away from using air as a spring. The reason is the density of the air varies with the temperature within the shock. In other word it is not consistent like a spring. My old GS had them and I only used 3 to 5 pounds in each leg, and that was with Progressive Suspension fork springs in.

With the Race Tech or the Hyper Pro I don't think one would need air.

Sorry Pete, I forgot to mention air is a bad idea, gas (nitrogen) is the way to go as it is not affected in the same manner as compressed air from the tank. The Sporty can run up to 12psi. The dirt bikes are more like your old GS where they run 4 to 6psi. Progressive does make some good stuff. I have their springs in the front of the Sporty. At $75 they were well worth it.

 

[schumacher62]

getting back towards the op- when i look at the top of my rear shock, i see a crown with numbers on it. since i have not made any adjustments to the shock, do i assume it is factory set at number 3? if it has been adjusted, where does the number it is adjusted to appear? more directly, if my shock is set at three, where do i read the "3?"

also, using the spanner included in the tool kit, what is the proceedure for changing the setting? put the bike on the center stand, slide the spanner in the side of the bike, and crank real hard?

much obliged for any info.

paul

 

[Doorag]

The numbers should be pretty obvious if you look at it from the left side of the bike with the seat off. And yes, the tool goes in and just turn it to what you want. I couldn't get mine to move up until I soaked it with WD-40 and then turned it down to 2 to get it moving then it went up to 5 pretty easy. Good luck.

 

[farish]

I'm amazed that there isn't a chart published somewhere. In the manual it has a chart of weights and recommended tyre pressures, but I don't remember seeing a preload one. That would be helpful.

I'm 95kg (210lbs) without any kit, and I ride with a pillion one a week so I should probably try a higher setting. Maybe I'll make a change this weekend and see how it goes.

so u are gonna ram it up from 3 to 4?

i weight 200 pounds and am thinking of increasing it to 4. Give me some feedback once u changed the setting and had a taste of it:rockon:

 

[Doorag]

I weigh 215 or so without kit and I went to 5 and it's much better. I think I'm going to go even higher and see what it's like. I can always come back off it if it isn't good. I'd recommend playing around with it and see how it does.

 

[CHEMIKER]

getting back towards the op- when i look at the top of my rear shock, i see a crown with numbers on it. since i have not made any adjustments to the shock, do i assume it is factory set at number 3? if it has been adjusted, where does the number it is adjusted to appear? more directly, if my shock is set at three, where do i read the "3?"

also, using the spanner included in the tool kit, what is the proceedure for changing the setting? put the bike on the center stand, slide the spanner in the side of the bike, and crank real hard?

much obliged for any info.

paul

I just adjusted mine for the first time (from factory 3 to 2 since I'm light). There is a rectangular opening directly to the left of the shock that lets you see the adjustment ring at the top of the shock. On my bike I can't see the numbers enscribed below the adjustment channels unless I really get in there. That opening is the same one you stick the wrench into to make the adjustment. Don't try to see your current setting or make an adjustment from under the seat.

You hook the end of the wrench on the hole that you're pulling toward you. For instance to adjust from 3 to 2 you will be hooking the wrench onto the left hand side of the shock and pushing the handle right.

When you really get in there you can see what your shock is currently set to. The indicator is actually inside the channel that your shock is set to. You can see this in the pic, there is what looks like a metal plate inside the center channel. For me with my stock setting this was the 3 position. I turned that adjustment ring counterclockwise to go from 3 to 2.

Let me know if this helps...

 

[schumacher62]

very clear travis, thank you for the photos and the description. ill try it out today when i get home from work.

if you dont have any plans for sunday, heres an exceptional ride:

Mellow Group Ride Sunday 6/15/08 - South Bay Riders

best,

paul