Code 19 Intermittent Issues

[vb7prog]

Mainly having starting issues with my motorcycle. It won't turn over sometimes (intermittent issue) and displays Fault 19. While cranking battery seems strong.

It also has cut out while riding, but that has only happened twice (on same day, haven't seen that very often). I believe the dash was still functioning after it cut out. I was accelerating hard in first (from stop) and when I was at about 10k rpm it cut out (at first I thought I just hit the rev limiter). Think I was in middle of shifting but can't be certain.

Seems to have these issues when it is colder out (starting) or bike is cold (cutting out).

I first experienced this issue about 6 months ago, but it happened very infrequently. About a week ago it started happening more often.

My riding habits are: bike gets a lot of short commute riding (20-25 minutes). I typically always use the kickstand to kill/park the bike. I bought the bike used with about ~8k miles on it (no idea how much kill switch was used). Currently bike has ~14k miles on it.

I disconnected the ECU and looked at the pins, there was a little bit of corrosion on a few pins, green colored rust, but the pins for the most part looked solid, I cleaned the connections as best I could and used an air duster to try and remove corrosion dust where possible.

I put the bike into diag mode but can't seem to start the bike in diag mode. When I try to start the bike in diag mode it displays ER_1 and wont start. Feel like I can get the error to occur more easily in diag mode ??

Reading up on Error 19 everybody seems to have a different remedy:

Replace ignition switch
Replace starter relay
Bypass or Replace sensors or button (clutch, kickstand, or kill switch)
Replace ECU

I thought it might be the kickstand, so I bypassed the kickstand switch, but seem to still have issues with starting it. So I don't think that is the issue.

Not sure what to try next...

Side Question: Can you guys start your bike with kickstand down but clutch being held ? I cant but some others I believe said they could

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds like the "RED KILL switch" acting up on the rt handle bar.

You can often manipulate it while stopped and running and duplicate your issues. If you use it alot, its more likely to fail as well...

Read up here, specifically post #14;

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/48311-run-switch-faulty-2.html?highlight=kill+switch

 

[vb7prog]

Ok. snipped and hardwired kill switch wires together. The contacts looked like the rubber had melted a little and were smeared a bit (Didn't look that bad), I have picture saved can post it later. Re-connected kickstand switch. So far no issues starting the bike, but since it is intermittent I will check back in a week if there are no issues or sooner if it reappears...

I did a quick job only splicing together the wires by about a quarter inch and using electrical tape to put them together, hopefully its good for a few weeks before I can put a more permanent like fix on it...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you want to by pass it altogether permanently and have it look stock, put the bar assembly back together.

Follow those two wires down (out of site), cut them (on THE SWITCH SIDE, NOT the MAIN HARNESS) and soldier, heat shrink them together.

BTW, I've never read of the rubber/plastic melting. Usually crappy contacts, loose rocker. That melting may very likely be enough to loosen the contact.

Out of curiousity, do you use the switch regularly?

And please, post how the test rides do..

 

[vb7prog]

Bike is all messed up today.

Really weak and sluggish trying to start. I believe that the battery has run down after much trouble shooting. I try to jump it but it is very difficult with my jumper to get at the battery terminals. I tried to jump it through the "battery tender hardwire, but that didn't register extra voltage on d08 sensor.

I was able to get connected to battery terminals, but couldn't close the tank lid and bike wouldn't start.

Also while the tank is up it is leaking fuel, well usually it doens't leak that much, but when I am in diag mode the fuel pump is running and and it just keeps leaking when the tank is up.

d19 and d20 both register ON and I can't get them to switch indications. I am wondering if something has shorted out in the interlock system?

Basically, I have low battery, I'm not sure how to charge it (too far for outlet, and appt complex complicated). When I do have a jumper system connected it just won't turn over.

voltage with jumper system (300 amps) connected was 11.4 and went down to 9 when cranking. without the jumper system battery voltage is at 10.8.

Good news I guess, is I haven't seen the code 19 when trying to crank the engine, but that isn't that good considering it wont turn over now anyway ...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It'd probably be easier to raise the tank and just pull the battery. Bring it to a safe area and put it on an automatic battery charger (preferably 1.25 amp) and charge her up. Figure 10 hours. Then get it load tested. The low voltage you have may just be from running it down but its still WAY TOO LOW.

As for the leaky tank/fuel, you shouldn't have drop coming off it, NOTHING. The connector is a kind of wierd set up but even with the line fully off and the tank full, it should not leak. I suspect its partially inserted into the pump.

Once the pump builds pressure it'll stop. You said it keeps running and leaking, indicating the leak and NO pressure building up. The engine will NOT run without 35 PSI or so in the fuel rail.

If you jump start the bike, the car should be TURNED OFF however, you can JUMP / RUN THE ENGINE with the tank propped up (and hooked up fully). Did you use a 300 amp charger on it set for 300 amps?

Throttle body sync's are synced with the fuel tank hooked up, tilted up running.. Just have at least 1 or two gallons in the tank.

One step at a time, you'll get there....

 

[vb7prog]

In answer to previously asked question: I barely ever use the kill switch, but bought the bike used and its possible previous owner used it frequently (8k miles)?

I charged up the charger (it was low). The charger is a quick start tool (the kind you would keep in trunk of car for emergencies). I believe it is basically just a small battery (12V @ 300 amps) with jumper cables connected and in a convenient package.

Last night, I was able to get the bike to start, and I made sure to keep in on and kept the revs high around 4k for about 5 minutes. This gave the bike a weak but decent charge.

This morning the bike started up fine. I think my battery is kinda weak, so I ordered a replacement, so I will put that in when I receive it. As far as the fuel leak I will open up a separate thread if it continues to be an issue.

I will report back in a few days if the code 19 issue has not reoccurred.

 

[FinalImpact]

Mine has gone both ways. Anything below a 3/4 full and its fine. Completely full and it has dripped sometimes, but not every time. Could be matter of just how Full it was. It seems to be common when full. I don't think I'd worry much about it unless in a small space with sparks/arcs/fires/heaters. Then clamp the hose or shove something in it. One is the fill overflow. The other the tank vent. The vent is the one needing stopped!

Get that new battery in there and see where it lands. Hopefully thats all that was wrong this last round.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

There is some room to peek under the tank and see some connections W/O removing it.

Keep a close eye under there.

Unfortunatly, the fuel hose comes as one unit (can't buy 0-rings separate) and hopefully the fuel pump exit is NOT damaged.

Please post how it goes with the new battery...

 

[vb7prog]

I'm not to worried about the fuel tank / line. I basically had just topped off the tank and ridden no more than 6 miles before I had this issue. So, I will assume if tank is above 90% then it might overflow when tank is at 90 degs.

I replaced the main battery. Replacing the battery was actually easier than conditioning the new battery (adding sulfuric acid, waiting, charging, capping). Anyways relatively straightforward.

I haven't seen the code 19 after 3 days of commuting so far. But again this is potentially an intermittent problem, so for now I am gonna consider the problem fixed by this method of bypassing the kill switch. If I do run in to the problem, I will reply to this thread again.

Thank you everyone for all your input.

Attached is a picture of the contacts, they didn't look that bad but I don't know:

 

[VEGASRIDER]

How ironic, once again, I have begun seeing the code 19 during my start ups. Last fall, it was due to a defective engine cut off switch, which I had replaced with a factory new one at the dealership. It is intermittent. Sometimes I get the code and sometimes I don't. It died on me in first gear today, but it started right back up.

Wonder what the issue is now? It can't be the switch again could it? Would a weak battery give me the this code? It turns over fine.

I'm I suppose to get the red oil indicator light when I turn it over, then it goes off when the bike starts up? I can't remember if that's normal.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I'm I suppose to get the red oil indicator light when I turn it over, then it goes off when the bike starts up? I can't remember if that's normal.

For my 07 (not the same dash as yours), the oil and temp red lights come on when I initially turn the key on, then go out.

I start the bike, no lights cranking/running. The oil light is NOT an oil pressure light, but simply an oil LEVEL LIGHT (enough oil in the engine, same set up between and S1 and an S2)

 

[vb7prog]

BTW, I after replacing my battery. I don't think the battery has anything to do with the code 19. I think I had code 19 issues, the battery drained because of so many bad starts and then I ran into low battery issues.

I did replace my main battery (it has run low last time I had technical problems). My problem with the battery was, given my current environment at apartment complex it is really difficult to charge the battery, so that and it having given me problems last time I had an issue I thought I had a problem. After replacing it, I checked the old battery after charging it up. It seems to have voltage of approx 13.19, if I understand that correctly I take that to be the battery is relatively healthy and probably didn't need replacing, but its OK now I have spare...

I wish there was a non invasive way to bypass the kill switch for testing purposes that would let you know and if it didn't work have a reversible option, but was not aware of that when I bypassed, still may be a possibility but not sure.

The kill switch is a weak link, and it may not be your weak link, but without bypassing it you can't really say for sure. VEGASRIDER got a new switch but if the switch is inherently bad then it could fail after a few miles. What I am getting at is I would be looking for a person who had bypassed the kill switch completely (and still runs into code 19 issue to verify that kill switch isn't the issue) and if anyone has a way to bypass the kill switch in a reversible manner that might be useful for people who experience this problem but need a way to undo it in the case that it is not useful

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Sometimes wiggling the switch assembly back and forth and side to side when the engine is running will cut off the engine if you have a faulty switch. I have yet to try that since I just discovered the code this afternoon.

Stay tuned.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A very NON invasive way to by pass the red kill switch can be done but would require some work.

You'd have to find the connector end under the battery and disconnect it.

You either find another factory end(same as from the switch) and run a wire back to itself, basicallymaking a permanent connection. They'd be NO mod at all to the bike, no soldiering, plug and play.

Finding an old switch, cut the wires and connect them together permanently, plug into harness, done and out of sight.

And lastly, using a "Posi Tap" out of sight, connecting the two wires (again by passing the switch) would work as well. I would do this again inder the battery to the switch harness, NOT the main harness...

Posi-Lock(R) - The Best Connectors You'll Ever Use!

 

[warthogcrewchief]

It sounds like you haven't been able to get it to run since the kill switch jumper fix. I don't think it's the kill switch, because if the kill switch is in the off position, it won't crank.

I've known Yamaha's (since they started using electronic ignition all the way back to the early 80's) that are EXTREMELY finicky about the electronic ignition system if the battery does not have a full charge.

I would consider replacing the battery. Most batteries have a usable life span of about 12-24 months (depending where you live and how you care for them). With a battery replacement, it should give you a fresh starting point at troubleshooting the problems (no pun intended).

 

[Motogiro]

All roads lead to Rome as the old saying says. Lol!
The awesome advantage of this great forum is sharing the collective experience of other people. If your kill switch has in fact been properly bypassed but the bike still experiences intermittent like kill switch anomaly, it might be the power to the kill switch.
The funny thing about intermittent contacting is that mechanical vibration can translate to an on off state very quickly where instead of the bike dying the ECU/ECM throws a code. It may not be the code primarily linked to the failure.
If you are experiencing what you feel as a power related intermittent it might be Anywhere from the battery to the kill switch. This would mean you might check the connection from the battery to the starter relay assembly that has your main fuse assembly. That assembly feeds voltage to the ignition switch. Jiggle your key and wiggle the wires that feed the ignition switch while bike is running. We've had members with a loose solder joint on the ignition switch that caused the problem. Ignition switches can go bad.
Pull the ECU/ECM plug and inspect the pins. There have been cases where the coil control pins got corroded. Good hunting!

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[vb7prog]

It's back. So bypassing the kill switch does not appear to have solved the issue. I need to double check the bypass but it was pretty solid last time I checked.

I jiggled the ignition key and wires below it while it was running couldn't get it to throw the code. I can't see any wires that are cut or damaged, but the problem I am having is everything is very inaccessible and tightly connected within the bike.

I am now thinking its the starter relay? I almost want to take it to mechanic, but am afraid of some 500+ electrical problem...

 

[FinalImpact]

Does that mean its cutting out or not starting or BOTH?!!?
Need to know so we can decide what path to follow! ^^


IIRC mine had the wire harness strapped to the fork stanchion and IMO it created more movement and flex on the harness being secured and turning, than leaving it loose in the breeze.

I cut it free and left it as it reduces flex and IMO over time, it could help preserve the integrity of the wires inside by reducing flex damage.

 

[vb7prog]

I see it both when trying to start and intermittently while riding.

All this happened on same day:

1st time: After quick trip to gas station died at stop sign. Started back fine after removing key / restart

2nd time: Died at high speed, full dashboard, lost throttle, after a few seconds in gear and going fast engine re-engaged.

3rd time: Died going 40mph, MIL stayed as coasted to stop with 19 stuck on dash. Started back up no problem after removing key / restart

4th time: At night just checking on parked bike. Wouldn't start flashing MIL and code 19. After removing key restarted without issue.

So mostly dies when running already, but more likely to see the code 19 message when trying to start probably related issue, but possibly two different issues bike dying and code 19 starting issue.

Some of the wires from ignition clutch / handlebar systems were zip tied to the forks. I cut those off. I fumbled with ignition wires while bike was running and got it to shutoff, then I stripped off the black protecting sheath but failed to find a visible cut, is it possible to have damaged wires beneath well shielded cables ?