Code 19 Intermittent Issues

[FinalImpact]

Sadness... Just typed a novel, browser hung and its gone....

Absolutely!!! Wires strands can break and wires jacket looks fine.

Do you own test lamp or multimeter? We really need this Side Stand thing closed so we know its not the issue.
19 - Open circuit is detected in the input lead from the sidestand switch to the ECU.

With the left pod cover off, Starter circuit Relay unplugged, connect Test lamp to 12V + POS side of battery. Follow the BLUE w/Black trace wire into the Starter Relay connector. Connect test lamp. With Side Stand up, LAMP should be on. WIGGLE WIRE TO SIDE STAND and all along frame rail to Relay. LIGHT SHOULD REMAIN ON.

Can you do this? You did clean and inspect the switch itself yes?

 

[Motogiro]

If you suspect a broken wire near the steering I would look where the wire harness bends the most. Open the heavy sheath that covers that group of wires. Pulling each wire apart will reveal the possible broken intermittent wire. You will feel just the insulated jacket on the bad wire and the jacket will be easily pulled apart. The good wires that have unbroken conductors will feel strong and won't stretch. That fact that your dash is going dead along with the rest of the problems leads me to think. Ignition switch or broken solder joint at the ignition switch, broken wire in the harness or broken connection right at the battery. Make n break hairline fracture at the 30 amp main fuse or main wire to and from main fuse.

Edit: Also if you suspect bike has been modified, for example maybe a naked conversion examine the harness in the steering area that may have been pinched by the steering head lock stop. We had a member who dropped his bike and the stop cut his harness.

 

[vb7prog]

I own a multimeter. I tried to do what you recommended FinalImpact (adjusting for multimeter), voltage stayed at 0.08 v, I need to retry it. I probably did it wrong.

I bypassed kickstand switch again, just to make sure its not kickstand switch. I had bypassed it before, but had issues, now in retrospect I can't remember if the issues were low voltage issues or the code 19 issues, so I am bypassing it again for the time being to see if that makes a difference.

I haven't tried to clean the kickstand or anything like that yet. Come to think of it I did recently lube my chain (before having issues) and it may have flicked off some junk under there. The problem I had was I bypassed the kickstand and still had problems so I discarded the thought that it was kickstand related...

Motogiro, the dashboard stays on all the time when it dies. I did cut the black sheath on the ignition wires and inspected the 4 internal wires they looked good from the outside, I jiggled them and couldn't get bike to shutoff.

I bypassed the kickstand by shoving aluminum foil inbetween the two male leads that are housed in blue female plastic harness, and covered it with electrical tape, I trust this is solid bypass...

Also the problem is "contagious?", when I get the problem it tends to stay around when I don't have the problem it tends to stay away.

 

[Motogiro]

I own a multimeter. I tried to do what you recommended FinalImpact (adjusting for multimeter), voltage stayed at 0.08 v, I need to retry it. I probably did it wrong.

I bypassed kickstand switch again, just to make sure its not kickstand switch. I had bypassed it before, but had issues, now in retrospect I can't remember if the issues were low voltage issues or the code 19 issues, so I am bypassing it again for the time being to see if that makes a difference.

I haven't tried to clean the kickstand or anything like that yet. Come to think of it I did recently lube my chain (before having issues) and it may have flicked off some junk under there. The problem I had was I bypassed the kickstand and still had problems so I discarded the thought that it was kickstand related...

Motogiro, the dashboard stays on all the time when it dies. I did cut the black sheath on the ignition wires and inspected the 4 internal wires they looked good from the outside, I jiggled them and couldn't get bike to shutoff.

I bypassed the kickstand by shoving aluminum foil inbetween the two male leads that are housed in blue female plastic harness, and covered it with electrical tape, I trust this is solid bypass...

Also the problem is "contagious?", when I get the problem it tends to stay around when I don't have the problem it tends to stay away.

Sorry. Thought when you said "Full Dash board" you meant the dash board failed.
The tin foil is not a solid way to bypass a switch... When you do the bypassing it must be with a solid connection. The lack of solid connection is probably what is causing your intermittent problem. Wish I was rolling up in your area. (I'm in S.D.) I would bring my kits, take a look and probably repair it.

 

[FinalImpact]

The benefit of using a 12v test lamp instead of a meter is the lamp draws current which basically tests the strength of the connection. A test meter draws so little current that even a bad connection can test good.

- With the left pod cover off, Starter circuit Relay unplugged from relay,connect Test lamp to 12V + POS side of battery.
- Follow the BLUE w/Black trace wire into the Starter Relay connector.
- Connect test lamp to blue/black trace.
- With Side Stand up, LAMP should be on. WIGGLE WIRE TO SIDE STAND and all along frame rail to Relay. LIGHT SHOULD REMAIN ON.
- move side stand up/down repeatedly, light should turn off and on as long as your connections are good.

^^ you can rig an old incandescent turn signal lamp as a test lamp... Any way to use a small lamp will be ok.

 

[Motogiro]

The benefit of using a 12v test lamp instead of a meter is the lamp draws current which basically tests the strength of the connection. A test meter draws so little current that even a bad connection can test good.



^^ you can rig an old incandescent turn signal lamp as a test lamp... Any way to use a small lamp will be ok.

The 12 volt test light is my most used device when tracking an electrical problem. It's also my cheapest diagnostic tool.

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[vb7prog]

The ignition wires were zip tied to the bike as well as the wires from the right hand side of the handlebars. I cut the zip ties to allow the cords to move more freely.

Motogiro and I looked over the bike. Thanks motogiro

Looked at the kickstand switch and it seemed pretty solid. It had good and clean activation between raising and lowering the kickstand. With vibrations and the kickstand up couldn't get it to open the circuit. Also followed the wire up to the harness, also couldn't get it to fail.

Checked the ignition wires and wires close to the ignition. No failures there.

Pulled out the safety cutoff switch and inspected it for corrosion, put it back on, seemed fine.

Pulled out ECU gave it some more cleaning.

Nothing obvious from inspections, but it is 10 year old bike and maybe disconnecting things and reconnecting things make the connections more solid?

Bike has been ridden for about 70 miles without issues so far. Will still need to monitor for intermittent failures, but this is the current status. I will check back in in a month or on next failure.

 

[vb7prog]

So I did experience this over the weekend again. They were minor but I will go over each one.

Event 1) Tried to start bike, check engine light on with code 19, took key out tried it again, started up fine.

Event 2) On freeway, going at highway speeds felt the "gas cut out" for a second even though throttle position hadn't changed. it re-engaged after a second and was fine.

Event 3) Just wanted to reposition the bike without turning it on, (bike already in neutral) i put key in and moved to run, started to move the bike code 19 on dash and check engine light came on. I ignored because I wasn't trying to start to the bike, kept maneuvering the bike while it was in nuetral to repark it, by the time I had reparked it (1 min later) code was gone.


It is possible that the "gas getting cut" or whatever that is, isn't related to the code 19 as they are happening at different times, but I still feel they are related because when I experience one I typically experience the other.

 

[vb7prog]

I started thinking this might be related to the ignition based on many factors. So I decided to continuity test the ignition switch. I also removed the shielding jacket to inspect the wires.

First thing I found was orange wires coming out of the ignition seems to be useless ? it just merges back into the red wire and looks like a homemade connection with electrical tape, I didn't peek behind the electrical tape because the continuity seemed good for brown and red wires at the connector. Even when jiggling the ignition key in the run position.

When I checked the continuity for the two blue wires it was OK in certain positions, but jiggling the key caused the continuity to fail and pass, fail and pass. Now it was difficult to get the probes into a very small connector, but I am pretty certain I wasn't moving them once in and the key was causing continuity to fail.

So if the contacts within the ignition are bad and have bad connections in the key switch that seems like something the ECU can register and not like, and turn off the motorcycle.

So obviously I can replace the ignition, but I want to try wiring together the two wires before they ever reach the ignition switch, but I need to know will this fix work, what will be the consequences?

 

[vb7prog]

Ok. I was so eager to get back on my bike, I went and bypassed the two blue ignition wires. I was pretty sure it would be relatively OK. So what if the ECU thinks the key is always on? It's not the boss of my bike.

So before I bypassed it, i left the wires disconnected just to see if it would throw a code 19 (it should). It did. Then I bypassed, started right up, this combined with the continuity test before cutting and bypassing makes me believe that it was/is ignition related. Of course I can't be 100% sure but with both an ignition switch and kill switch bypassed there aren't many places prone to failure left. I will continue to monitor and report back issues.

If my bike were nicer or newer year, I would probably replace the ignition switch to keep it nice and clean, but I'm OK having a modded bike.

I want to come up with a better code 19 trouble shooting guide but will take me a few days I think.

 

[tejkowskit]

So you disconnected the ignition, which triggered code 19, correct? But did the motor crank and crank without starting like it does without the ignition disconnected? Just to be clear, you disconnected the blue wires and got code 19, right?

 

[vb7prog]

I snipped the two blue wires midway between ignition switch and first ignition plastic connector.

Tried to start the bike, it would crank and crank with code 19 flashing. The reason for this seems to be the starter and all safety relays are happy and will let you try and crank. But, the ECU can't complete the circuit because of a short in its logic loop (blue wires in this case, under failing circumstances it would be the contacts within the ignition switch [hence intermittent]) so it won't start the fuel pump and displays this condition as an error code.

Then I connected the two wires on the plastic connector side, the side that the ecu is eventually connected to making it think key is always in ignition in run position, and it starts right up.

First, I would try to check the ignition wires themselves, you may have a broken wire or something like that.

 

[Motogiro]

When it died in one of the instances you stated the gas cut out and that you had the throttle in the same position but the engine stopped. Did the gas shut off or did the ignition turn off or both or....?

If I had the same intermittent problem and suspected the ignition switch I would make a little 3 LED card and monitor the three lines coming out of the main ignition switch. Mount the card where you can see it and when the bike fails as a result of one of those 3 lines you will see it right away via one or all 3 LEDs. The LED's react in to off state really fast so even a slight glitch will show.