How to downshift while keeping the power up

[darius]

Hey folks. Just wondering if anyone has advice or tricks for downshifting while keeping the power up.

Where I'm having trouble is downshifting ahead of or slightly into a corner or going uphill. Rolling off causes the motor to engine brake then bog as it goes through the very low RPM range 1-4k.

It delays the resumption of power when I want to sustain a fair corner speed, accelerate out of the corner, power up a hill etc. This is usually a shift into 2nd or 3rd gear.

Any tips / advice as I think I'm missing something! Thanks!

 

[FinalImpact]

My first thought is this: Before you ever get near the corner, get the R's up so it can pull.
Then as needed, lift for a nano second, drop a gear and proceed. If that's not enough, drop another gear. On flat land (not up a hill) pretty much anything below 5k and you can leave the throttle fixed and drop a gear and continue. Try it some time.

Don't put too much thought into and soon your muscles will take over as an automated response to the bikes needs.

Key being, don't wait, just do it!
Let me know how it goes...

 

[Erci]

If you're interested in learning an advanced technique and want your spirited riding to be more... umm.. spirited .. work on blipping the throttle while you're braking.

This should be done before you get to a curve / turn. So as you start applying brake(s), blip the throttle and downshift. You can do this all the way down from 6th to 1st in some instances .. like traveling at 65 and approaching a single lane 90 degree turn.

Watch this video (the technique I'm talking about is shown at around the 2 minute mark)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrbZJbXwgrY]Sportbike Trail braking, downshifting, throttle control...the definition - YouTube[/ame]

 

[darius]

My first thought is this: Before you ever get near the corner, get the R's up so it can pull.
Then as needed, lift for a nano second, drop a gear and proceed. If that's not enough, drop another gear. On flat land (not up a hill) pretty much anything below 5k and you can leave the throttle fixed and drop a gear and continue. Try it some time.

Don't put too much thought into and soon your muscles will take over as an automated response to the bikes needs.

Key being, don't wait, just do it!
Let me know how it goes...

Thanks for responding, Randy. I don't quite understand the technique you're suggesting though- downshifting without rolling off at all.

My understanding is that rolling off needed to take pressure off the gearbox and if I pull the clutch in with the gas open, the revs will immediately go sky high.

If you're interested in learning an advanced technique and want your spirited riding to be more... umm.. spirited .. work on blipping the throttle while you're braking.

This should be done before you get to a curve / turn. So as you start applying brake(s), blip the throttle and downshift. You can do this all the way down from 6th to 1st in some instances .. like traveling at 65 and approaching a single lane 90 degree turn.

Watch this video (the technique I'm talking about is shown at around the 2 minute mark)

Sportbike Trail braking, downshifting, throttle control...the definition - YouTube

Thanks. Good to see that vid again. I do brake and downshift simultaneously just like in the vid.

I think my issue is that I'm not doing it soon enough ahead of the corner. I need to keep the revs higher going into the turn, avoiding engine braking and lugging.

 

[Erci]

I think my issue is that I'm not doing it soon enough ahead of the corner. I need to keep the revs higher going into the turn, avoiding engine braking and lugging.

Sounds like you're not grabbing a low-enough gear. You shouldn't be lugging it, no matter how late you do your downshifting. But yeah.. you should be done with your downshifting before you begin countersteering. There's nothing wrong with engine braking while steering (setting your lean angle), but as soon as desired lean angle is set, stop steering and start progressively rolling on.
Don't be afraid to bring the RPMs way up in straight line to make sure you're in the sweet spot when it's time to roll back on.

 

[darius]

Sounds like you're not grabbing a low-enough gear. You shouldn't be lugging it, no matter how late you do your downshifting. But yeah.. you should be done with your downshifting before you begin countersteering. There's nothing wrong with engine braking while steering (setting your lean angle), but as soon as desired lean angle is set, stop steering and start progressively rolling on.
Don't be afraid to bring the RPMs way up in straight line to make sure you're in the sweet spot when it's time to roll back on.

Thanks. This is very helpful. :thumbup: I'll be out practicing more this week.

 

[Motogiro]

Rev matching is another common term used for blipping the throttle. The idea is keeping your motor RPM in the area that is producing the power you want while not using so much engine braking. Here's another video related to rev matching or throttle blipping. notice this guy upshifting at times with out the clutch. We have constant mesh transmissions that make that a breeze but only pay attention to the down shifting, and that you want to do with the clutch. When you learn this it brings your riding into another realm. It kills the initial drag on your rear wheel so that you can engine break without locking the rear. You'll be perfect at it in no time!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_cPblE6my4]How To Downshift While Rev Matching - YouTube[/ame]

 

[FinalImpact]

Meaning - if you're not trying to accelerate, just maintain speed say at 50 mph in 5th, hold the throttle steady and down shift. You're at such low rpm, it will pleasantly climb rpm like maybe 500 or so and make a very smooth transition for the next lower gear.

THIS DOES NOT work if you're lugging it tho. i.e. - throttle is 3/4 open at 50mph in 6th, yes, the RPM will sky rocket. At cruise on level ground in 5th or 6th this works just fine. Just bump down until you're in range where you have the power you need.

 

[Carlos840]

I'm a pretty new rider, but if you end up in the 1000 to 4000 range maybe you should not be shifting down in the first place?!

IMO the bike is happiest above 5000 and really starting to feel alive at 8000 so this is where i try to keep her. She really opens up at between 10000 and 13000.

It took me a while to tune my brain to the fact that what sounded like mad rpm at 6000 was nothing, and that i should start shifting a lot later. Once you get used to the noise and start shifting at 8000 or 9000 you never get that problem any more. You just need to change all your shifts higher, and that should move all your downshifts higher to.

 

[Solarservant]

+1 to that!

I was thinking the same thing. I really liked learning on the FZ because of the mellow nature of the engine at low RPMs. Keep it below 5k and it will behave very calmly, as if you are on a much smaller machine. But don't get seduced by this! All the fun is higher on the clock when you're ready.

The first thing I noticed when I started keeping the revs up more often (5k-10k) was that throttle response just felt "twitchier." For good reason-this is where the power is. My point is, once you get comfortable with this twitchy feeling, you can begin to use very fine throttle inputs to steer the bike in corners. Get your speed right before you enter a corner, then with revs somewhere in the middle of the power band, you should be able to use micro-throttle adjustments to hold your line through the turn. Did I mention these are tiny right hand inputs? The slightest twist, really just enough to pull the slack out of the throttle cable is all that's needed to plant the bike, and make angels sing.

Then after pulling through the corner you should be in the right gear to start climbing that hill...

:thumbup:

 

[greg]

(thought I'd replied to this, but apparently not)

For a beginner I think the best advice is to try and get in the correct gear BEFORE a corner.

For most corners this is usually 3rd or 4th, or 2nd for a slow tight corner.

If you change the gear whilst cornering you can upset it, though this is less of a concern if the bike isn't being pushed very hard.

Rev matching/throttle blipping can help with smoothness, but it's ok to slowly use the clutch too. I use all 3 methods (using clutch, blipping, or holding throttle constant) to change gear depending on how I am riding.

It's best to get your gear changes and braking done before a corner, and then you can just use the throttle to control the speed as you go around. The engine shouldn't be bogged down and lugging. As long as you are smooth and controlled with your hand the power is perfectly manageable IMO.

At this stage there's no need to worry about backing it in, or using the brakes mid-corner (but do be aware that braking can cause you to run wide) :thumbup:

 

[darius]

Took the Fizz for 20+ miles of twisty action today in a nice rural area with little traffic and a large variety of corners.

I think I did a decent job with gear selection and always shifted ahead of the corner.

As cautious as I am and first time on that loop, I went into most corners on the slow side and sometimes let the RPMs drop a bit too much causing the engine to hesitate a bit as I roll back on.

Need more practice on these kinds of roads!