Motorcycle training in California

[Flyinace1]

Hey guys...So my girlfriend decided last year that she wanted to get in the pilots seat of a motorcycle so she signed up for the MSF course and took it. She got thru the class no problem and actually already ahead of the curve because of her experience as a pillion but the actual riding part was a different story. She got really nervous and tense and ended up getting asked to leave. She still really wants to ride but she's a perfectionist and a little scared of failing again.
1)How can she get her confidence up?
2)Does anyone know any motorcycle lessons that would take it slow for her? Go at her pace and walk her thru things? I know from experience that the MSF course is kinda fast paced and impersonal which isn't helping her learn.

I know that the best thing for her first bike is something small that she can learn on. Neither one of us has ever done any off road riding and won't be starting anytime soon mostly due to lack of funds, time and interest. She is panning on buying an older ninja 250 to start with. It'll be something she can use regularly which means more time in the seat.

P.S. before anyone gets on my case this was all her idea and her thoughts, heck she's wanted to ride since before she met me, I'm just trying to help her BUT ONLY WHEN AND WHERE SHE WANTS ME TOO!

 

[iwannaride]

Honestly, getting a 250 and going at her own pace and time is probably the best thing to do. If she knows where all the controls are and how to operate them then shes already halfway there.
I went out and bought a Rebel 250 for a couple hundred bucks having absolutely no knowledge of motorcycle riding/care/maintenance. I took the MSF course once I had some idea what I was doing and it was a piece of cake. Unless you can find private motorcycle lessons, there's no better way to learn than getting a bike and riding.

As for what you can do.. just be supportive. Lots and lots of "You're doing great!"

 

[Erci]

Do you know how far she got in BRC (which exercise)? Did she crash once or several times?

Instructors try very hard to not counsel people out. They should have also spent extra time with her on early exercises if she needed it (while others took a break).

In general, I would advice against coaching your significant other.. usually doesn't not end well, but certainly there are exceptions.

 

[Neal]

She got really nervous and tense and ended up getting asked to leave.

A teacher is pretty much only going to ask someone to leave if they feel it is a safety issue.

If nervous and tense means she was freezing up physically, then she shouldn't shouldn't be riding a motorcycle at all.

Everyone is biologically wired differently when it comes to perceived danger, fight, flight or freezing (playing dead) are the responses.

When it comes to riding a motorcycle you have to be a person of action.


Obviously, I don't know what happened or what really is.. but looking into sport psychologist is good idea to make sure she is right for this type of activity.

 

[Erci]

A teacher is pretty much only going to ask someone to leave if they feel it is a safety issue.

Not entirely true. Technically, a student must successfully complete each exercise before moving on to the next one.

But for the most part, yes.. safety is definitely #1 priority and if anyone becomes a danger to themselves or to others, it's time to counsel them out.

 

[dxh24]

+1 on the Rebel, geared like a cruiser with low HP, hard to get in trouble (with your wrist anyways) on that, plus it's a great bike for inspiring confidence.

Assuming she has her permit and you your license, find a parking lot or a back road and just ride together. Riding with somebody you trust can do wonders for nerves until she is comfortable enough on a motorcycle.

Another option might be take the MSF with her, having someone close always helps.

All that being said, some people aren't wired for a motorcycle, nothing to do with bias, or intelligence but its just not for them. If safety is being threatened by freezing up it just might be best to stray away from it.

Scooter? (Idea popped in my head as I was ending my novel of a comment)

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Remember, the class is about teaching the basic fundamentals of riding a motorcycle. Your coaches are there to observe, coach and evaluate and determine if the rider has met the minimum objective for the excercise and move on, we are not looking to create the perfect motorcyclist. I'm good but not that good. That being, we do understand that everyone learns at a different rate, but there comes a point that you cannot have one rider holding up the entire class since there is only so much time set aside for each excercise.

As Erci had mentioned, more one on one coaching is often needed, possibly done during break, or maybe a few more runs so I often would place the riders who needed more runs at the front of the line. Sometimes, I would trade off and let the other coach have a stab at coaching, maybe my approach is just not getting through.

Trust me, I have dropped dozens of students from my class, but only after we have exhausted our resources. But it should also not come to a surprise that a rider is dropped. Everyone is warned at the beginning of day one that anyone can be cancelled out. If a rider has significant difficulties keeping up with the rest of the class, or becomes a danger to themselves or others, we have the authority to drop a rider.

On the other hand, I'm kind of surprised your girlfriend was dropped. From my experience, passengers make great riders. They understand the importance of trusting and leaning the motorcycle. Sometimes, it just take some people two or even three times to successfully complete the class. I have come across several students who I did not realize at the time, that they have been previously dropped by me, only to get the bad draw of getting me as their coach again. Turns out they became one of my stronger riders. They were already familiar with most of the excercises and it really gave them confidence.

Remember, in the event that your girlfriend barely met each objective, and were allowed to continue, there would have been no guarantee that she would have passed the riding evaluation.

I say wait a couple of months, and if she feels up to it, take another stab at it.

 

[Flyinace1]

Thanx for the feedback guys.
From what she's told me she was asked to leave because she was holding the class back. She never mentioned the coach helping her during the breaks or having one of the other coaches help. According to her, he was kinda impatient and she felt kinda unwelcome at the course in general from the beginning because of different things that happened or were said throughout.
During the course she was assigned a rebel and hated it, she was used to her feet being under her in a much more standard position. Just to give you an idea about the coach, he was assigning the bikes according to height. Tall guys on the dirt bikes shorter ones on the rebels, well my gf had specifically asked for the dirt bike but was assigned a rebel...and she was taller than a couple of the guys who got the dirt bikes.
I had a great experience at the MSF course I went to and should have recommended she go to that one even tho it is further away.

I am not sure how far she got but I'm pretty sure it was about halfway thru the 1st day.

I'm sure she will become a great rider one day but she is a perfectionist which is where most of the stress comes from, she doesn't like making mistakes and doing something she's never done before is difficult because of this. When riding pillion she is great and a natural since the 1st day she got on, never fighting me or the bike. I know I am not a coach and would prefer if a professional would coach her.

 

[Erci]

... she is a perfectionist which is where most of the stress comes from, she doesn't like making mistakes and doing something she's never done before is difficult because of this.

I can see how BRC would be difficult for her, if that is the case. The entire range part of the course is about being corrected on just about every pass by the rider coach. We pick out 1 or 2 of the most critical mistakes (out of sometimes as many as 5-6) and convey them to students (most of the time via hand signals). Perhaps have a talk to her and explain that the only way the coaches can give her as much knowledge as possible in such a short amount of time is to often correct her. We correct everyone, even the best students.. everyone makes mistakes.

Having said that, she should not have to ride the Rebel, if she doesn't want to. While bikes do vary from school to school, I can't imagine there's one that only has Rebels and dirt bikes. Usually there are GN125's (there are fantastic to learn on), Nighthawks (Rebel drivetrain, but ergonomics of a standard), Ninja's, etc.

I don't know of any professional doing private coaching, but such an individual may very well exist. As mentioned above, the other options are to either re-take BRC (and insist on not wanting to ride a cruiser) or buy a cheap bike and learn in a quiet parking lot. If she chooses the parking lot route, I would recommend that she practice enough to get relatively comfortable and then still sign up for BRC.

She didn't attend day 2 of the classroom portion, which is where so much of the safety aspect of riding gets covered. Just about anyone can learn to operate a motorcycle, but riding one safely in the real world requires much more than ability to manipulate various controls.

 

[Verharen]

She still really wants to ride but she's a perfectionist and a little scared of failing again.

Your girlfriend sounds like me, the first time I took the MSF course. I wanted to be perfect and almost failed the test at the end because of it. I ended up taking it again later to improve my skills and confidence.

I'm not sure how you would arrange this, but it might help if she were to take the class with another female friend who is interested in learning to ride. Or even just another beginner that she knows before starting the class.

We women are social creatures and often do better with tough challenges when we are with friends. Especially when we can empathize with each other and talk about it from a similar starting point.

Riding a motorcycle is hard! If it was easy, everyone would do it 'cause it is so cool! "Brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough" - Randy Pausch, The last lecture (link included if you're not one of the 16 million existing viewers).

My message to your girlfriend: You can do it! Allow yourself to start as a beginner and enjoy the journey to getting better!! :thumbup:

 

[Flyinace1]

Your girlfriend sounds like me, the first time I took the MSF course. I wanted to be perfect and almost failed the test at the end because of it. I ended up taking it again later to improve my skills and confidence.

I'm not sure how you would arrange this, but it might help if she were to take the class with another female friend who is interested in learning to ride. Or even just another beginner that she knows before starting the class.

We women are social creatures and often do better with tough challenges when we are with friends. Especially when we can empathize with each other and talk about it from a similar starting point.

Riding a motorcycle is hard! If it was easy, everyone would do it 'cause it is so cool! "Brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough" - Randy Pausch, The last lecture (link included if you're not one of the 16 million existing viewers).

My message to your girlfriend: You can do it! Allow yourself to start as a beginner and enjoy the journey to getting better!! :thumbup:

Thanx for that, I'll show her your post and maybe she'll be able to find a friend to take the course with her.

I can see how BRC would be difficult for her, if that is the case. The entire range part of the course is about being corrected on just about every pass by the rider coach. We pick out 1 or 2 of the most critical mistakes (out of sometimes as many as 5-6) and convey them to students (most of the time via hand signals). Perhaps have a talk to her and explain that the only way the coaches can give her as much knowledge as possible in such a short amount of time is to often correct her. We correct everyone, even the best students.. everyone makes mistakes.

Having said that, she should not have to ride the Rebel, if she doesn't want to. While bikes do vary from school to school, I can't imagine there's one that only has Rebels and dirt bikes. Usually there are GN125's (there are fantastic to learn on), Nighthawks (Rebel drivetrain, but ergonomics of a standard), Ninja's, etc.

I don't know of any professional doing private coaching, but such an individual may very well exist. As mentioned above, the other options are to either re-take BRC (and insist on not wanting to ride a cruiser) or buy a cheap bike and learn in a quiet parking lot. If she chooses the parking lot route, I would recommend that she practice enough to get relatively comfortable and then still sign up for BRC.

She didn't attend day 2 of the classroom portion, which is where so much of the safety aspect of riding gets covered. Just about anyone can learn to operate a motorcycle, but riding one safely in the real world requires much more than ability to manipulate various controls.

Thanx for the info. I have already talked to her about learning to ride a motorcycle includes mistakes and I'm hoping that by next time she'll be ready. She is still planning on taking the BRC once she feels ready to again.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Thanx for the feedback guys.
From what she's told me she was asked to leave because she was holding the class back. She never mentioned the coach helping her during the breaks or having one of the other coaches help. According to her, he was kinda impatient and she felt kinda unwelcome at the course in general from the beginning because of different things that happened or were said throughout.
.

Rider Coaches have to be patient! It's normal to have a rider or two and slow the class down, okay anymore it would be the class from hell, and I've had my share. Her coaches should have spent more time with her and then re-evaluate.

She can always lodge a complaint against the coach through the training site, that is not uncommon. Trust me, I'm sure I've had my fair share. Not guaranteeing that she would get her fee waived for the next class or anything else. But there could also be a number of complaints filed against that coach.

I wasn't there, and I'm pretty sure that everyone was explained to them at the beginning of class that anyone can be dropped for various reasons. But in fairness, it's the coaches responsibility to inform their student on how they are progressing. I may ask the riders who are struggling with questions like "How do you think you're doing" or "what do you think is making you nervous, etc?"

Honestly, I loved the Rebel. We are instructed to switch off on all the models whenever we do our demos, but I always cheat and grab the Rebel. Unless some of the students are vertically challenged, it's a free for all on who gets what bike in my class. On occasion, I have had riders switch bikes once the range exercises has begun for whatever reasons. But in general, we like to have our students keep the bikes that they first selected, unless they crashed it and need another one. Riding is mental, the type of bike your girlfriend was riding should have had no effect. But it's also a common excuse to hear from the students, they blame the bike.

Great thing about the MSF, the way the class is taught should be exactly the same, regardless of where and by who. Remember, there could have been a very good possibly that I or Erci would have dropped your girlfriend as well.

 

[Verharen]

For what it's worth, my "starter bike" was a Honda Rebel 250. I loved it at first and I thought it was a great bike to learn on. I had buyers remorse after about a month because I outgrew its capabilities pretty quickly.

I sure did feel confident on it as long as I didn't have to get out of anybody's way. It topped out at 65mph downhill with a tailwind if I recall correctly, and people drive faster than that on some of our 2 lane hwys around here.

Must've been the "slower red" color that did me in!

 

[FinalImpact]

OP - I'm not sure if its an option but if you have friends with with beat up dirt bikes that wont be any worse for wear if dropped some more, riding in the dirt teaches the mechanics of starting, stopping, shifting, turning/navigation which can increase confidence once at the training course as the mechanics of riding are in hand. Simply put, an open field is far less demanding than painted lines.

Just a thought.. .. ..

 

[MG-242]

All very good comments and suggestions. Just like everything in life, there are good and bad. There are some coaches that I will not teach with for various reasons. Not saying that was the case, but hearing the same information from a different person, male or female, can be interpreted totally different. We have some excellent female coaches in Ohio, another possibility if she had males. Again, we are all different, we all learn differently, and we all relate to others differently. She will connect with the right person.

From her perspective as you have noted, not everyone can take up something new and be perfect at it. It takes time and practice, often much practice. Personally, I have no natural talent at riding a motorcycle. I have, though, been somewhat successful at roadracing only because I kept at it often making mistakes but always kept learning, trying and not giving up. If she is serious about wanting to ride, she'll stick with it until she becomes proficient. Your job is to keep encouraging her and letting her know that she can do it if she wants to and that we all make mistakes. I've seen many riders who were totally out of their element in the beginning and went on to become excellent riders, especially in racing.

As Vegas notes, most of riding a motorcycle is mental and the first thing you need to arrive at is that you can do it. It may take practice and a few bruises, but almost anyone can ride a motorcycle if they want to. I had to qualify that because I have seen a few, very few, that should not be on a motorcycle - almost always from a mental aspect and rarely from a physical aspect. Even the most uncoordinated person can learn to ride but it comes from the mental side to begin with.

Tell her the Forum wishes her good luck, she can do it, and let us know how her next class works out. We can't wait!!:thumbup:

 

[Flyinace1]

My fiance found someone to instruct her in riding and yesterday they spent about 6 hours getting her comfortable on a motorcycle and learning the skills required to ride. She came back confident and ready to do the MSF course again...and in love with dual sports.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Nice, head and eyes up, knees against the tank. Good riding posture. Now if I can only hear the bike.

 

[Monica A]

Your girlfriend sounds like me, the first time I took the MSF course. I wanted to be perfect and almost failed the test at the end because of it. I ended up taking it again later to improve my skills and confidence.

I'm not sure how you would arrange this, but it might help if she were to take the class with another female friend who is interested in learning to ride. Or even just another beginner that she knows before starting the class.

We women are social creatures and often do better with tough challenges when we are with friends. Especially when we can empathize with each other and talk about it from a similar starting point.

Riding a motorcycle is hard! If it was easy, everyone would do it 'cause it is so cool! "Brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough" - Randy Pausch, The last lecture (link included if you're not one of the 16 million existing viewers).

My message to your girlfriend: You can do it! Allow yourself to start as a beginner and enjoy the journey to getting better!! :thumbup:

I agree with Jen. I did the MSF course with my 16 year old son. He was encouraging but another lady friend that was learning too would have been a better support when I got frustrated. AND I definately agree about not teaching your girlfriend. My hubby tried teaching me to ride dirt bikes. It was a disaster. He wasn't patient enough with me and he made too many assumptions. His basic technique was "got on the damn thing and ride" aaaahhh.....what? Taking the MSF course was the best thing I ever did.

I would also suggest reading technique books. A great book is "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough. (It would be called safe motorcycling if it was written for women). He does a great job of breaking down everything you do when riding a motorcycle with terrific diagrams to show what is occuring and what happens when its done incorrectly. I reread the book during the off-season and I learn something new every time. Hubby has been riding around 30 years and he rereads it too and says he learns something new every time.

 

[dbldutch02]

On the trying to be perfect front, and inevitably being frustrated that you aren't immediately, I found the way to get round was setting smaller goals for yourself. Teaching friends to drive/ ski/ shoot etc it also seems that girls (in general) like to master the first step before they are comfortable to move on to the next, where us chaps tend to jump in with both feet.

So, instead of "I will be Joey Dunlop the moment I look at a bike", a more realistic aim might be "I will pull off smoothly 9 out of 10 times", and just practice that until you can do it, then move on to the next thing. That way you can indulge your perfectionism, without getting frustrated.

The other thing that we all forget is that half of riding is muscle memory, and there is no shortcut for that, it's just practice.