Only in America...

[Stumbles06]

Wow!!
Now, Aussie guns laws are pretty strict. I used to be in a Pistol Club, and I do like guns, but carrying in plain view in a kids park is just nuts.
Just for clarification, if that guy was in a park here in Oz, he would've been shot on-site...lol.

:rockon:

 

[Doorag]

He has to be a cop. Texas, Cali, and most other states have concealed handgun permits available, but the handguns must be just that: concealed.

I used to live in Arizona and they had carry laws but the weapon could NOT be concealed. Each state is different...

Edit: Nevermind. I've read the rest of the thread and this has been well covered already. Sorry!

 

[Wh0M3]

I know that the views on guns and the laws around them can be very different. I have very strong views on them as well. To me it is just as important as our separation of church and state. (Not that I want to hijack this thread :spank: )

I believe in the right to carry a gun. I believe it is better to carry it concealed because of the reactions others may have toward it. I get sick to my stomach and it really pulls at my heart strings when I hear of violent actions against people no matter what is used. My deepest sympathy to Vegas. The actions at Columbine are just as wrong.

The thing that gets me is every time someone wants to talk about how gun control would be better they tend to bring up crime to support it. To me the criminal didn't care about laws and even if there were more laws in place it wouldn't stop them because the laws that are out there didn't stop them either. Unless I'm mistaken adding another crime to the list of things that were broken wouldn't have stopped them in the first place.

The only place I would support open carry is out in the woods where you have the chance of being attacked by a mountain lion or bear. On the street or in public it just sends the wrong message. A cop in uniform would be my only exception to that.

I have a family who I am not able to protect 24/7 and I want my wife to have the ability to defend herself along with the training and skill to do so. Here at the FZ6 Forum we all pretty much agree that the first step anyone who wants to ride should take is get the proper training. I feel the same way. Without training you are a danger to yourself and others. Driving a motorcycle is a big responsibility, if you want to take a pillion your responsibility doubles. I believe it is the same way with a gun; you have a big responsibility to treat it with respect. Anyone who jumps on a bike and stunt is a fool to me; the person who wants to carry a big gun just cuz is a fool as well.

Just my own humble opinion.

 

[GConn]

Live by the sword, die by the sword

That's how I see it. I served in the army, so it's not that I am afraid of guns. It's a matter of philosophy for me. I can't really imagine a whole country, where everyone can carry and be trained sufficiently. Yet everyone has the right to a gun.

 

[Humperdinkel]

He would have to be a copper , surely even in America this wouldnt be a normal person at the park with his kids ..... It would sure as hell stop the paedophiles from hanging round though :thumbup:

 

[Wh0M3]

I looked it up and according to wikipedia you can open carry in Cal if the gun is unloaded. To me that is a stupid idea.

I kept thinking about the question if this doesn't desturb you what type of weapon would? I would have to answer with a big samurai sword strapped to his back. That would make me want to leave the park.

 

[OZXJR]

This thread is going to end up in another love hate gun fest.
Someone close it before it gets out of hand,we have had it happen before remember .

 

[Tailgate]

Kool! But, I didn't think that it would be Wavex to BRING BACK UNDERGROUND! Of all people, Wavex, Wow! (lol)
Edit: CA assembly JUST (yesterday) passed AB1934 and now this bill goes to the senate. The bill would make a $1,000.00 fine to display a weapon just as exactly that guy did at the playground. For you readoholics, here's a link: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/06/02/2792005/assembly-narrowly-passes-bill.html

 

[Geoff]

Kool! But, I didn't think that it would be Wavex to BRING BACK UNDERGROUND!

That was unnecessary lol, However your other information was quite interesting.

This thread is going to end up in another love hate gun fest.
Someone close it before it gets out of hand,we have had it happen before remember .

Agreed, this is going political (not my best choice of words). This thread was originally about Wavex's experience and It was interesting at first, but this thread has really exploded in the last 24 hours on what should be and what it should not be. It might just be me blowing smoke.....

 

[Hutchmaster34]

AGREE THREAD NEEDS TO BE CLOSED! Obviously this topic hits way to close to home for way too many people. Very sorry Vegas.

 

[Sparky10]

Wow. Someone is in public with a tool on their side. Let's all press the panic button.



There is no issue here. I man is carrying a firearm. He has a right to do so. He is hurting nobody. If somebody does not like it, they should exercise their right to leave.

 

[Tailgate]

This thread is going to end up in another love hate gun fest.
Someone close it before it gets out of hand,we have had it happen before remember .

What we need is some kind of "Glavit" or the "Politburo" (Soviet era orgs) to clamp down on this discussion before it becomes too controversial. Yeah, I'm just joking but I kinda like hearing that FZ6 Forum posters come from a wide spectrum and are not all carbon copy individuals.

 

[Mutineer]

1. What if he is a cop?

2. His gun and magazines appear to be holstered properly - it's not like he has a gun tucked in his jockstrap, ready to fall out and hit the ground.

3. What if he is a responsbile parent and taught his small children that daddy's guns arent toys and they should not touch them?

I'm not trying to be a prick, Wavex, it's just that many people (and they're often clueless, hysterical women) see things like this and press the panic button. Then, stupid local legislators create unconstitutional local ordinances limiting people's 2nd amendment rights, causing the taxpayers tons of money via legal matters to get all of the silliness undone.

I don't have kids, but if I was presented with a situation where I had to defend them, you're damn right I would want a gun at my side.

I honestly could not have said this any better myself. Well stated.
-M

 

[Wavex]

Because they have almost no guns. That's obvious, and a straw man.

If you really want to compare, let's look at overall crime statistics for two good examples, the US and the UK.

They have less gun crimes because they have less guns. They are not lacking in violent crime, assault, rape, and kidnapping.

NationMaster - British Crime statistics

NationMaster - American Crime statistics

Your argument is weak... less guns obviously doesn't mean less bad guys... but it does mean less ppl dying as you stated...

Morality:

- more guns = more dead ppl
- less guns = less dead ppl

Wasn't your point (and others) that if more ppl had guns we would all be safer (meaning there would be less dead ppl)?

I'd love to see yearly US stats comparing the number of ppl who got killed by guns accidentally compared to the number of ppl that were saved by their guns (other than professionals like cops and such). Any of you ever save anyone else by shooting/killing a bad guy with their gun? Do you hear such stories on a regular basis (I hear about gun related accidents all the time...)?


Back on topic though, that guy in the park was out of place

 

[NineseveN]

Honestly, I would have called 911 and told the operator that their is a man in the playground with a real hand gun.

Let the real cops handle the situation.

If the guy happened to be a cop, well he may have not exercised his best judgement and may have received a nice warning from his fellow brothers.

He could have been a bounty hunter, who knows. But It would have been really interesting if the cops would have shown up.

But that's a great picture for another topic, I'm sure the media would have a field day if you submit that too them.

Sure, and maybe everyone should be encouraged to call the cops when we all ride by on our motorcycles because our HID's, fender eliminators, exhausts or other mods might be illegal or maybe we're speeding. I think it would be really interesting if the local cops were pushed to pull every motorcyclist over to check their legality. Imagine the hilarity you'd feel, I can just sense everyone just brimming with anticipation for the exercise.

People who are dangerous typically don't carry openly, nor would you expect to see them on a playground with children acting in a completely legal manner.

 

[Wavex]

If you are going to state facts, you might want to back them with data. Also include other manners of death (such as knives). Anyone can pull any figures they want out of thin air.

Gun Facts

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

First off, what makes you think a "professional" is any more qualified than anyone else? How many cops have you heard of shooting themselves when cleaning their weapons? There are many "civilians" that have much more weapons training than police officers. Most of them see guns as a passion as well as a tool. Just because you see someone not in a uniform with a weapon does not mean they have no training.

If even professionals can't handle guns safely without shooting themselves and others, imagine what I think about most civilians trying to do so!!!! scary...

 

[Derf88]

I would have preferred him conceal it. I don't mind the weapon, I mind the impression it gives to children.

 

[Wavex]

1. Many of you said leave it in the car. That bothers me more than him carrying it holstered as he is doing. Responsible gun owners DO NOT leave firearms unattended in vehicles, locked or not, unless required to do so by law. Most criminals obtain firearms illegally by theft or purchasing from a thief.
2. This took place in CA, correct? In CA it is legal to carry an unloaded firearm as long as it is exposed in a belt holster, just as this man is doing. I have no way of knowing from the pic if the weapon is loaded or not. Unless he has a CCW or is a full time sworn peace officer under CPC section 832.2 it would be a crime to conceal it. The ability to obtain a CCW in CA varies greatly depending on where in the state you live. State law says that the Sheriff in the county in which you reside MAY issue a permit if you show "good cause" and meet other critiria (No felony convictions, ecieved training etc.) The definition of "good cause" is left to the determination of the Sheriff. In some counties an applicant simply states "self protection" and he/she gets a permit. Other counties take your application and fees and ruber stamp it with a "Denied".
3. A firearm is an insurance policy. You buy it, carry it and hope you never have to use it. Much like your motorcycle helmet. I can think of nothing more valuable to protect than my children. You say if he is to scared to go to the park without his gun.... Well are you to scared to ride your Fazer to the corner store without your helmet? THINK ATGATT.
The way I see it he is doing nothing more than safeguarding his family.

Thanks for the details about the law and everything else. Not sure why you'd want to carry an unloaded weapon with you (what good is that to protect yourself?), but ok.

If ATGATT for my kids means that they always have to have someone armed behind them at all times it means I need to hire a couple of armed bodyguards to follow them to the park, to the babysitter, to kindergarten etc... not very practical is it...

Statistically speaking, comparing ATGATT on a bike to wearing a weapon on me at all times makes very little sense (unless you live in South Central LA or some really dangerous area) imo. Chances of me needing my gear on my bike are MUCH MUCH higher than me ever needing to pull my weapon on someone to protect my kids... especially in a Beach town's kid park...

 

[Wavex]

Very interesting thread indeed...

I firmly support the second amendment.

I believe gun control is hitting your target, once the object is qualified to be a target.

I believe a clean gun is ready gun.

I believe thorough training should be a requirement before you can carry, open or concealed.

I must first be prudent in all situations I am to carry my weapon.

HOWEVER... Having good s/a is paramount at all times.

Is it prudent and reasonable to openly carry in an upscale playground with very young children around thereby instantly making yourself standout amongst others...NO

Is it prudent and reasonable to assume all those around you would be put at ease or have a raised level of anxiety, because you have weapon in plain sight??

I defend the persons right to carry as defined by the law, but I severely question his judgment to do so in THIS situation.

Awesome :thumbup::rockon:

 

[NineseveN]

Your argument is weak... less guns obviously doesn't mean less bad guys... but it does mean less ppl dying as you stated...

Morality:

- more guns = more dead ppl
- less guns = less dead ppl

Wasn't your point (and others) that if more ppl had guns we would all be safer (meaning there would be less dead ppl)?

I'd love to see yearly US stats comparing the number of ppl who go killed by guns accidentally compared to the number of ppl that were saved by their guns (other than professionals like cops and such). Any of you ever save anyone else by shooting/killing a bad guy with their gun? Do hear such stories on a regular basis (I hear about gun related accidents all the time...)?


Back on topic though, that guy in the park was out of place

From the US Center for Disease Control, the entity which tracks such things: Injury Mortality Reports

FYI, about 5 times as many people die on motorcycles than due to unintentional gun-related deaths.

From: GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense? (cites to the original studies included in the linked page)
"There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually."

Even if we add in the homicides (to exclude legal intervention by police officers and private citizens) and suicides with firearms for the period between 1999 and 2007 (that's 8 years), the annual instances of Defensive Gun Use far outweigh the number of unlawful or non-defensive gun-related deaths.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled dismissal of the truth based on fear and an unfortunate lack of information. Ride safe.