Stolen (now recovered) Bike FZ6N Conversion

[Motogiro]

No Pressure.
No Fuel.
No Run.
It needs fuel. Test the pressure!

Battery is very happy - Cranks SO fast! Plugs are not your issue as stated before. It wants fuel. Find out why it has less than it needs!

Hmmm..... Do a compression check? Maybe the cam chain jumped and that is why the bike was on the side of the road with the bike thief in the first place? I hadn't seen the video and just watched it. When I heard that fast cranking..... Do a compression check. If the compression is bad you may have to reset the cam chain. Hopefully only off a tooth or two and the valves are good...

 

[FinalImpact]

Hmmm..... Do a compression check? Maybe the cam chain jumped and that is why the bike was on the side of the road with the bike thief in the first place? I hadn't seen the video and just watched it. When I heard that fast cranking..... Do a compression check. If the compression is bad you may have to reset the cam chain. Hopefully only off a tooth or two and the valves are good...

That is very good point. Tell us exactly what (if anything) is connected to battery. Sounds like its cranking with 14++++ volts... charger set on ????

But you say it runs if you give it fuel.

If it cranks that fast on its on from its own battery I agree with Cliff, it has no compression. I assumed you were jumping it with something.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

GREAT CATCH Cliff! And Randy for making note of it.

Agreed, timing off a tooth could in-deed cause those issues, ESPECIALLY the fast cranking.

That would also explain the engine getting some fuel (but not the right time!)

 

[FinalImpact]

Here's the video of attempting startup

[video]https://goo.gl/photos/9jGBJuHrAy72jhg4A[/video]

And then I pulled one of my plugs. I'd say they need replaced.

View attachment 67333

I only pulled one because I didn't have the replacements yet. I'll replace these on Saturday (not getting Iridium by TownsendsFJR1300's advice) and hopefully that fixes the issues. Otherwise, I'll be on to the fuel pressure testing and injectors.

So what happened here?

 

[Motogiro]

:don'tknow:I'm really curious about what has happened on this.... :don'tknow:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1, just PM'ed him

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From the OP just now...:

"Yeah sorry. I haven't been able to get to the bike in a while. I'll make a post today with some pictures when I get home"

 

[Dake]

I too am interested in what happens. I'm about to try and resurrect a bike that went down at highway speed. It has fuel, air, and power, and it's cranking very quickly and freely without firing.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I too am interested in what happens. I'm about to try and resurrect a bike that went down at highway speed. It has fuel, air, and power, and it's cranking very quickly and freely without firing.

It'd be better if you could start a new thread with the year bike, damage, etc.

Please post what it does and doesn't do, as well as what you've done to it already.

If it sat for a long time with fuel, etc, all that helps...

A video is a BIG HELP as Cliff noticed that very fast cranking (not usual).

 

[ajbuck68]

Sorry everyone, unfortunately I've been very busy and haven't had very much time to work on my bike (or respond on here).

The last time I worked on the bike, I replaced the spark plugs. As you can see below, they were extremely fouled, so even though I know this isn't what is keeping it from starting, it needed to be done. Also in the picture is something I rigged up when struggling to get the plug out of cylinder #4. It's just a spare nut that fit the top of the plug super glued to the end of an allen wrench that was the right length. Might be handy for anyone else who struggles similarly.


I also rented a fuel pressure test kit from AutoZone pictured below. I tried to use the adapters in the blue rectangle, but the fuel line that connects directly to the pump wouldn't fit tightly on the end. Most likely the next time I have time I will need to rent the kit again and go get some adapters and lines from Lowes or something. I just need to find what size the lines are and get exactly the right size. The manual Townsend sent me will probably have that in there.


Lastly, I need to do the compression test as you guys have mentioned here. I haven't even had time to research into what that looks like, or what tools I need, and I don't have the slightest idea either. My first step there will be to search it on these forums and then I would assume rent some sort of kit from AutoZone.

Thanks for the help everyone. And I assure you if I figure it all out, I will be posting on here for sure. If I don't say anything for a while, that's just because work is busy and I don't have time.

 

[FinalImpact]

One important question before deciding to do a compression test: was a charger or something connected to the bike when you made that video? Like a battery hot box jump starter? Something that would raise the voltage when cranking?

If no, a compression test may come first.
What happened after new plugs? If you added fuel and it starts and revs and dies, a bet the fuel pressure is low.

That kit has nearly everything you need except some short hoses and clamps. Connect directly to the pumps outlet at the tank and into that T or or straight adapter to the gauge.

Short hoses: grab 1 ea 1/4", 5/16", and 3/8" ID hose and clamps.... you may need a plug if you use the supplied T with its quick disconnect to the gauge.

 

[ajbuck68]

One important question before deciding to do a compression test: was a charger or something connected to the bike when you made that video? Like a battery hot box jump starter? Something that would raise the voltage when cranking?

No, nothing was connected. However I did just get a brand new battery and it was fully charged up by the bike shop. Would that be enough to make that happen?

What happened after new plugs? If you added fuel and it starts and revs and dies, a bet the fuel pressure is low.

Nothing changed, when attempting to start, everything was almost identical.

 

[FinalImpact]

No, nothing was connected. However I did just get a brand new battery and it was fully charged up by the bike shop. Would that be enough to make that happen?


Nothing changed, when attempting to start, everything was almost identical.

If it was just a basic lead acid battery, I would say no. Something is very wrong and it seems it has minimal compression as a normal operating FZ would not crank that fast.

You might read up on valve cover removal as that could be in your future. Off hand, it might be wise to proceed to a compression test.

Remove the battery, box and air cleaner, pull out that rubber pad and compression test will be a lot easier to do.

 

[ajbuck68]

If it was just a basic lead acid battery, I would say no. Something is very wrong and it seems it has minimal compression as a normal operating FZ would not crank that fast.

You might read up on valve cover removal as that could be in your future. Off hand, it might be wise to proceed to a compression test.

Remove the battery, box and air cleaner, pull out that rubber pad and compression test will be a lot easier to do.

So, I've never done a compression test, but I got a lot out of the shop manual. I do have a few questions in the list below:

1. Measure valve clearance (Do I have to do this? It sounds like more work than the compression test)
2. Start the engine, warm up for several minutes (Obviously I can't, how much will this affect the readings?)
3. Remove seat, fuel tank, air filter case, battery, battery box, battery box bracket, heat protector plate, cover, ignition coils
4. Remove spark plugs (do I need to remove all of them, or can I take out just one to test?)
5. Install compression gauge
6. Measure Compression. Standard: 220.5 psi. Minimum-Maximum: 184.9-234.7 psi
7. With throttle wide open, crank the engine until the reading stabilizes

If anyone could answer the questions in 1, 2, and 4, I would be very grateful. Also any other feedback or advice on compression testing will be much appreciated!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As earlier posted, that engine spins over way too fast..

IMO, your wasting your time doing a compression test (at least for now). The engine can be a tooth off and still show decent compression. With the fast spinning over, my money is the compression test would read low anyway.
.

It DOES involve removing the RS cam chain cover and the valve coverto check all your timing MARKS are dead nuts lined up..


***NOTE: The shop manual INCORRECTLY has you spinning the crankshaft CC. ONLY / ALWAYS turn the crankshaft (star board side) CLOCKWISE

Both below are stickies under the "How to" section" and will answer all your cam / timing questions

http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-to-s-/47593-valve-clearance-check.html

http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-to-s-/53398-valve-clearance-adjustment.html

 

[FinalImpact]

I agree it is going to be low but you still should have a point of reference so the compression test is needed.
#1, you dont have to but you will be there anyway so you may as well check it. Plus it will help identify potential damage like a bent valve.

#2, not essential. We can still obtain a cold reference point.

#4 YES, you need to compare all the cylinders.

With all of this out of the way it is very easy to access the plugs. It takes maybe 15" to get here. I had the valve cover off in less than an hour cleaning along the way...

Once out of the way a clean shot... compression gauages have a long whip on them and the hose is stiff. Dont fight it, remove the air and battery box. Set the coils aside.


AISS Block Off Plates Installed:

Now we could talk of a leak down test, but the same issue applies, the engine has to be in time to perform the test.


From another thread where I checked the valve lash...
You need a 3mm long reach Allen wrench. Ball socket is helpful for the odd angles... look here.


http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/51736-08-fz6-condensed-build-thread-final-impact.html

Valve adjustment is DONE! :thumbup:
All of the exhaust valves were too loose and out of spec! Intakes were OK! Those seem pretty stable! :thumbup:
Maybe it's from too much of this:

How it all went down! Notice 1L, 1R, & 3R. All exceeding spec which resulted in "tap tap tap" you could hear.

^^ Chart made it easy to pick a middle of the road "Desired Spec" of 0.27mm on the exhaust and quickly pick shims and KNOW the Expected clearance once assembled!



ONE HOUR TO GET HERE (slide show tear down to valve cover off):

Naked Look! Ready to go back together!

 

[Motogiro]

If you find your cams are off a tooth you may want to replace the cam chain tensioner and/or guides. Depending on mileage, the guides may be worn. The cam chain tensioners on the FZ6 are known to get loose and the cam chain will get loose and noisy. If the CCT was worn/sticking and the engine was getting pushed, it may have jumped a tooth or more. This may have been a condition when the thief had the bike but the creep didn't care so....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just to add, I would inspect cam and crank marks FIRST. There IS an issue going on with that fast crank...

If everything lines up, a leak-down tester would be much BETTER as you don't have to spin the engine over
(crank by hand till TDC compression stroke, then lock up engine). It will give you a percentage and the overall health of the engine..

With the bike assembled, getting a compression tester or leak down tester into a spark plug WILL be challenging...

I don't think you'll be needing the tester as my moneys on the cams being off BUT, it's still a great tool again to check the overall
health of the engine...

IE, if you hear air coming out of the throttle body(one cylinder at a time), You NOW know there's an issue with THAT SPECIFIC INTAKE VALVE(s), etc...

This is the the unit I use. Not terribly expensive and very accurate.:

 

[FinalImpact]

Just to add, I would inspect cam and crank marks FIRST. There IS an issue going on with that fast crank...

If everything lines up, a leak-down tester would be much BETTER as you don't have to spin the engine over
(crank by hand till TDC compression stroke, then lock up engine). It will give you a percentage and the overall health of the engine..

With the bike assembled, getting a compression tester or leak down tester into a spark plug WILL be challenging...

I don't think you'll be needing the tester as my moneys on the cams being off BUT, it's still a great tool again to check the overall
health of the engine...

IE, if you hear air coming out of the throttle body(one cylinder at a time), You NOW know there's an issue with THAT SPECIFIC INTAKE VALVE(s), etc...

This is the the unit I use. Not terribly expensive and very accurate.:

But you need to remove the valve cover to verify alignment. That said, if the cams are out of time with the crank the valves will be opened at all of the wrong times so for example putting it on TDC firing #1 will likely have the valves (intake or exhaust) open and the test will fail.

My point is op cant do any more damage than has been done now. Doing a compression test would for example hopefully show all holes have 80psi. Basically all be equal but low. Hopefully just replace chain and CCT, align marks and its good to go.


Engine is 1 tooth retarted on the exhaust cam. Notice marks...

Crank aligned to case split.

This is what you would be checking for with the valve cover off.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The valve cover doesn't have to come off BUT you do need to be at TDC for the ONE cylinder at a time your checking.

If the crank is on TDC compression, and each cylinder leaks out say the exhaust valves(they'd obviously be open- and timing off((or valves WAY TOO TIGHT)), it'll verify the timing is off.

He's going to be removing the cam chain cover (as posted) to get to the crank mark AND the valve cover to see the cam marks...

IMO, to get that far, all he'll need is a new side cover gasket, a couple of hours of invested time to check the timing (and valves right away).

The fast spinning over syndrome is screaming something major is off. Follow the clues...

I don't need to know, say 80 PSI is in all the cylinders, I just wasted a bunch of time, a tool, etc..

Once the marks are checked/re-aligned, proceed accordingly..