Trouble starting

[SamuraiMark]

Went for a spin tonight. The bike was cold and had not been run in >12 hours. The fuel system definitely did not prime. The bike started just fine nonetheless, but I think the priming system is hosed. I do not recall hearing the priming sound for some time, probably not since the first time it would not start. I assume the bike can start some / most of the time despite not priming but when it actually needs priming, that's when I am running into trouble.

New thread: http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/55546-fz6-not-priming-fuel-system.html

- Mark

 

[FinalImpact]

You my friend are in NEW territory if I have this correct. Here are some random thoughts to share. ))Bike sits for 12 hr and there is NO sound of Fuel pump running when key is turned on. That defies all I think I know about this.

If you want to REALLY know about the prime thing - do that same test at least three times. i.e. 12 hr wait and listen. THEN - THEN after 3 confirmed tests, lift the tank and disconnect the fuel line letting some fuel spill out.
- Does it prime now?


Options when it doesn't start:
Option A: Add fuel when it doesn't start. I AM NOT a fan of Starting Fluid but at least it doesn't mean total parking lot disassembly, jsut lift the tank and fog it. Still I hate this on Hi compression engines. Also, OPEN THROTTLE AND CRANK it WHILE spraying initial dose.

OPTION B: Extend the 4 TB Sync Hoses and make them Accessable under the seat!! Now Carry a syringe full of gas. Shoot a few 10 CC's into each and plug them when it doesn't start. Try to start and see what happens.

AIR + Fuel + Spark = running. Assuming it didn't blow holes in the piston tops while resting in the garage at night.

That's it....

 

[Motogiro]

Does the instrument cluster do the self test when you first turn on the key?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[SamuraiMark]

You my friend are in NEW territory if I have this correct.

"Trendsetter" ... maybe I'll make that my epitaph.

Here are some random thoughts to share. ))Bike sits for 12 hr and there is NO sound of Fuel pump running when key is turned on. That defies all I think I know about this.

Absolutely zero sound. The priming sound on my bike is / was always quite obvious (I assume it is the same for everyone else). I just started it up. Here's a clip:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2mf1H7cSEA[/ame]

If you want to REALLY know about the prime thing - do that same test at least three times. i.e. 12 hr wait and listen. THEN - THEN after 3 confirmed tests, lift the tank and disconnect the fuel line letting some fuel spill out.
- Does it prime now?


Options when it doesn't start:
Option A: Add fuel when it doesn't start. I AM NOT a fan of Starting Fluid but at least it doesn't mean total parking lot disassembly, jsut lift the tank and fog it. Still I hate this on Hi compression engines. Also, OPEN THROTTLE AND CRANK it WHILE spraying initial dose.

OPTION B: Extend the 4 TB Sync Hoses and make them Accessable under the seat!! Now Carry a syringe full of gas. Shoot a few 10 CC's into each and plug them when it doesn't start. Try to start and see what happens.

AIR + Fuel + Spark = running. Assuming it didn't blow holes in the piston tops while resting in the garage at night.

Thanks again.

 

[SamuraiMark]

Does the instrument cluster do the self test when you first turn on the key?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Yes. Everything seems perfectly normal, except it is not priming. See video clip in my previous post.

 

[FinalImpact]

"Trendsetter" ... maybe I'll make that my epitaph.



Absolutely zero sound. The priming sound on my bike is / was always quite obvious (I assume it is the same for everyone else). I just started it up. Here's a clip:

My fizzer don't prime - YouTube



Thanks again.

How about this; turn it to RUN and then turn the key on!?

Personally - I never EVER use the Run/Stop tilt switch. Ever...
I just use the key.

What happens if you kill it with the key AND BEGIN with R/S switch in "RUN" position before the key is Turned on?

 

[SamuraiMark]

How about this; turn it to RUN and then turn the key on!?

Personally - I never EVER use the Run/Stop tilt switch. Ever...
I just use the key.

What happens if you kill it with the key AND BEGIN with R/S switch in "RUN" position before the key is Turned on?

Well damn ... If I:

1. switch the kill switch to "run" first,
2. then turn the ignition to "on"

The bike primes "normally" (familiar priming sound for ~2 seconds) ... every single time. I can't tell you how happy this makes me! :cheer:

Going the other way around, ignition -> kill switch, the bike used to prime normally. Something has happened / changed such that it almost never** primes now. So at least I have a workaround.

Where do I send the beer?

**this AM it *did* prime once when going ignition to "on" -> kill switch to "run" ... but the priming noise was maybe 0.5 seconds long, instead of the usual ~2 secs.

 

[pulsar2]

That is how it is on my bike too. The kill switch must always be in the Run position for the fuel pump to prime.

 

[FinalImpact]

Send Beer!? :thumbup:

Had you not shared the video, those dots would not be connected!
An educated guess, but the ECU is activating the pump but with the Run switch off, internally its completed its "run sequence" (timed event) and when you are ready to flip the switch, the "timmed" element, (fuel rail charge) had already completed and it turned the pump off again. Thus, it never happens with run switch in the off position due to length of time.

If you want to better humanity and do a test for us, leave the run switch Off, turn key on, wait about 10sec, with bike in gear (clutch disengaged), push it at a very slow speed (1/2 speed of walking) and pop clutch. LISTEN for fuel pump to come on.

My theory is that once the ecu detects crankshaft movement, it turns the pump on. One could remove the round plug on the right side and use a ratchet to rotate crankshaft too.

***** warning, it may start - so be careful and don't drop it******

Keep us posted!