What gives: the 20ft "gappers" at lights?

[Tailgate]

Am I the only one or is there some sound logic to,the cagers who don't queue up normally at a light and will leave up to a 20ft "gap" between them and the crosswalk line or even just the vehicle in front of them? This now seems more and more to include drivers doing this practice even if they're not the first one before the crosswalk line. And, if the first one in line does this to preclude from getting pushed into the cross traffic during a rear-end incident, why then, don't they move up once a line of cars has established behind them? But, what really baffles me are the ones who are, not even in the front but, say, 3-4 cars back and stop 20 feet or so short of the vehicle in front of them and just stay like that even if there are 20 vehicles completely stopped behind them. WTF? The other day while making my way (splitting at 5MPH or so) through stopped traffic I discover a 20foot or so empty space or "gap" in front of one of the cars stopped 5-6 cars back in the queue. Since the light up front turned green and the cars were now starting to resume movement I just pulled in this empty car length space (I don't like to split at light queues when traffic starts moving). Is this supposed to irritate, do you suppose, the driver behind me who practices this kind of protocol? WTF is going on with the drivers who do this practice? WTF is this supposed to do besides irritate the other drivers behind...including the ones who want to make a left turn but can't move up to get to the left turn lane and, as a result, must now wait for another traffic light cycle? I don't know about you, but this kind of discourtesy "irritates" me, especially if I'm in my van and I could have room to enter in the left turn lane and make it in one traffic light cycle if only the f'ing driver up front taking up enough space for 2 vehicles didn't do this. Imagine if all drivers did this. And you know, if I wasn't on a motorcycle and filtering at these light queues I wouldn't even be aware of how often this is what's happening up front. Tailgating can be GOOD, even courteous, if nobody's moving and nobody's going to possibly rear-end you and push you into cross-traffic or the vehicle ahead of you.

 

[rbesr]

I've seen lots of drivers leave the large gap between them and the car in front of them at lights. It's not to irritate other drivers, it's self-defense. If for some reason a driver rear-ends the last car in line, it can set off a chain reaction of knocking each car into the one in front of it. If you are stopped too close to the car in front of you and get knocked into them, you can be sighted for causing the damage to the car you hit.

 

[Troubl]

I've seen lots of drivers leave the large gap between them and the car in front of them at lights. It's not to irritate other drivers, it's self-defense. If for some reason a driver rear-ends the last car in line, it can set off a chain reaction of knocking each car into the one in front of it. If you are stopped too close to the car in front of you and get knocked into them, you can be sighted for causing the damage to the car you hit.

+1. I seem to remember back in Driver's Education in California we were taught to leave about a two-car gap between us and the car in front for that very reason... if you are rear-ended, with that gap you will not rear-end the car in front of you.

 

[08fz6]

only problem i see is people that do that around here wait till the last second and go o yeah i wanna have a gap so they slam on their breaks thus making me and that could be even worse.... however here in ny we also have no fault so....

 

[mglowe]

Cars actually leaving some space... not in my town. Bumper-on-bumper seems to be the norm in the Midwest. I was taught that the rear wheels [touching pavement] for vehicle in front should be visible. I wouldn't say that would be a 20 foot separation but a comfortable one.

The reason for a gap is that when the light turns green, everyone can begin moving at the same time. A gap allows for the difference in speed as not everyone will leave at the same rate. I have never seen this work as people do not pay attention and the impatient one inevitably ends up braking.

I absolutely hate it when some impatient bozo (trucks are the worst), really believes they are going to get there faster on my bumper and queues inches away - intimidation. Crazy thing is... where are these people going? I mean, we have no place here that important needing to ride up each others arse or we would ALL be there already.

 

[Tailgate]

I've seen lots of drivers leave the large gap between them and the car in front of them at lights. It's not to irritate other drivers, it's self-defense. If for some reason a driver rear-ends the last car in line, it can set off a chain reaction of knocking each car into the one in front of it. If you are stopped too close to the car in front of you and get knocked into them, you can be sighted for causing the damage to the car you hit.

Lemme get this straight. If I'm stopped, say 5 feet back from vehicle in front whether it be in backed up freeway traffic, toll booth, freeway on-ramp light, green light queue and somebody rear-ends me causing me to roll into the vehicle in front, I can be cited and held at fault and it's not and not only the driver's fault who initially caused the accident or chain reaction? Also, everybody taking a twice the space necessary, let's say, at a left turn lane, and making drivers behind, as a result, having now to wait an additional traffic light cycle is not going to ramp up road rage? Geesh, even CHP officers don't engage in this practice (I don't think I've ever seen it).

 

[teeter]

It's a bummer when you're first at a light that you can't trigger and the safe, friendly driver behind you is stopped prior to the sensors. I've had this happen a number of times.

You can't get pissed really because at least they're considerate and not parked on your pillion. It's still frustrating though. I always want to somehow wave them forward, but I know that would be a confusing "come hither" gesture.

 

[grommit]

Is it not better to make the gap as small as possible...



..thus all the energy is transferred to the car who is first in the queue.

 

[CHEMIKER]

Here is my 0.02:

What I've noticed is that people around here that leave the gaps also creep forward to close that gap at some point during the red light. They are often talking on the phone or otherwise distracted. I don't believe there are that many people that are paying that much attention to be doing this on purpose as some sort of safety measure. I think they aren't even thinking of what they are doing and then when they realize where they stopped they creep forward to fill the gap.

It is my biggest pet peeve also because of the "I can't make it into that turn lane because of some jacka$$ who isn't paying attention" reason. The worst is when they move forward now I have to move forward so I'm not the new jacka$$ leaving a gap in front of me...

 

[Tailgate]

Is it not better to make the gap as small as possible...



..thus all the energy is transferred to the car who is first in the queue.

Okay, grommit, tell me, do all of these balls individually have operators with a foot on the brake as do just about all automatic transmission drivers because this is probably 90+ percent of everybody. Also, if drivers are stopping within 1-2 centimeters of each other is this realistic? As far as strategy while on my FZ, I will position myself on the side of my lane, not a whopping 20 feet in back of the vehicle in front. That way, if there is something barreling down out of control on me (I keep an eye approching vehicles with my mirrors) I simply move forward to the left or right (lane split) and move out of action (is this going to be deemed an "illegal" lane split in your state?) And, if there's, say, a number of cars already stopped behind me I don't even bother really staying glued to my mirrors out of paranoia because 1) car approaching a light queue that far back is already out of view anyway, and; 2) if there is a errant driver that far back rear-ending a vehicle I'll hear the action before I see anything in my mirror. At any rate, I'm surprised that some of FZ6 Forum posters will do this practice of stopping 20 feet or so short of the intersection line or vehicle in front even after a multitude of other vehicles have already queued up behind you. I dunno, this strikes me as being overly cautious. Maybe like the drivers who are first to go at the light and just sit there hesitating, afraid to proceed because they haven't surveyed what the situation is before the light turned green. Some of them will wait, paranoid and s-l-o-w-l-y proceed...even if all the vehicles in the cross traffic lanes are already and have been for awhile already stopped at the intersection line. Sometimes, this generates somebody directly behind or farther back tapping/sitting on the horn but by that time a number of drivers farther back are already precluded from making that green light cycle. I consider this practice unneccessary to be defensive and more of a discourtesy. By the way, about 30 years ago I was rear-ended while stopped at a light. My car was totaled. I was lucky that I didn't catch fire...it was a pre-unsafe-gas-tank-recall Ford Pinto

 

[Little Red]

I have several theories about these drivers.

(1) Poor depth perception. This person shouldn't be driving, of course. But because some ethnic groups and age groups are far more likely to fall into this category than others, and there's no constitutional way to write laws based on what appears to be racism or ageism, we're stuck sharing the road with a lot of people who are dangerously unable to gauge their distance from other vehicles. These same drivers usually also fail to respond appropriately to other visual cues in the driving environment, and are often dangerously timid on the road. Except when you "recklessly" move into an empty, static space they've created; then they're angry.

(2) Want to leave enough room to change lanes. This person is thinking ahead, in a way. If they do need to change lanes because of a breakdown in front of them, they'll have the space to make the manoeuvre. But they annoy other road users with their lack of consideration and mindless inefficiency.

(3) Want to leave a cushion in case they are rear-ended. Again, thinking ahead, in a way; they could keep a simple rear-ender from becoming a chain-reaction pileup. But once traffic is all lined up behind them, they could safely close the gap. They just don't, maybe because they're too busy texting on their cellphones or blackberries.

All of these categories of driver become irate when you take advantage of their inefficient road use: either they're territorial and that space is "theirs", or you appear reckless and unfair to them, failing to respect the rules of the road.

But let's face it: the rules were created for safety and efficiency. But drivers frequently feel personally affronted when it's pointed out that their behaviour supports neither. It's also pretty impossible for someone who's never ridden a motorcycle to appreciate that your machine can out-accelerate anything on 4 wheels from a zero start; they will be as mad at you as they would at a cager who'd pulled in front of them.

The best response I've figured out, when the 20-footer gets mad at me, is to point out the huge space by pointing to both ends, pointing out how big my bike is, and then ignoring then ignoring them while they spend the rest of the light trying to figure out what I meant by all the sign language.

Then, when the light does change, chances are they'll never see me again.

 

[Cloned]

It's a bummer when you're first at a light that you can't trigger and the safe, friendly driver behind you is stopped prior to the sensors. I've had this happen a number of times.

You can't get pissed really because at least they're considerate and not parked on your pillion. It's still frustrating though. I always want to somehow wave them forward, but I know that would be a confusing "come hither" gesture.

I had that happen just the other day. I was stopped for five minutes, the line behind me just kept getting bigger. After another couple of minutes, I just went through, I was holding up at least ten cars.

 

[rbesr]

Tailgate,
Yes, you can be cited for not leaving a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. The vehicle that hit you did not make contact with the car in front of you, your's did. If an adequate amount of distance is left between the two vehicles, the less the chance that your vehicle will hit the car in front. Most LEO's will take into consideration all information concerning the accident and make a judgment call as to whether the vehicle that was initially hit could have avoided hitting a second vehicle or not. It's not a given that you will be cited for hitting the car ahead of you. It can and does happen, though.

Here in the Columbus area, if you leave a safe gap between you and the car ahead of you, three cars and a tractor trailer will try to pull in front of you.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Am I the only one or is there some sound logic to,the cagers who don't queue up normally at a light and will leave up to a 20ft "gap" between them and the crosswalk line

Yeah, I see that done all the time as well over here. But I'm not sure why you would get too upset over this, it's just an open invitation for you to get pole position my brother. Whenever I see that done, I say thank you very much!

 

[CHEMIKER]

Really guys?

Can I get cited for getting hit from behind and slammed into someone? I don't think so. I'd like to see the law that states that it is my fault.
It may vary from state to state but I doubt that if I leave reasonable room between me and the car in front of me (a foot or two) I will be liable for someone rear ending me into them. I bet you 98% of the time I will not get cited and the other 2% of the time my lawyer will be able to prove that the citation was BS.

Also, I have paid a lot of attention to these people and I feel that most are just not paying attention to what's they're doing. I don't have that much faith in other drivers to think that they are putting enough thought into what they are doing to do this on purpose.

I'm with Vegas; IMO they are giving me the pole position :rockon:

 

[kvanderploeg]

We were taught in FedEx driving school to leave enough room that we could see the entire crosswalk over the hood. This was due to an incident that occurred previously. A driver was pulled right up to a crosswalk at a red light. He took a look down at a clipboard, studying upcoming deliveries. When he looked up the light turned green and he took off. There was a person that had been crossing in the crosswalk and had dropped something, and bent over to pick it up. He ran that person over.

One more reason in addition to all the others that have been listed so far.

Kent

Don't drive so fast to save a minute, you need your head, your brains are in it.

 

[Rushiku]

I had also been wondering what the deal with the massive gaps was, so, thanks everyone for clearing that up.

Though it still doesn't explain, to me, why someone would choose to sit 20-30 feet back from the line, as the first car, at an intersection with a median (as in, the only way a left turner could hit you, even if you were past the line, would be to attempt to drive up the wrong side of the street...which, given that you're sitting there pointing the other direction is pretty obviously the wrong way - and now that I think about it, sitting that far back actually _encourages_ people to do exactly what one is trying to avoid, as they won't see you sitting where you should be)

I assumed they were afraid of imposing upon the light, y'know - it's rude to ask the light to change just for you and all, all the work it would have to do. Detect your presence, turn a few bulbs off and some others on, whew, don't want to wear it out.

I'm in the process of teaching my 15 year-old to drive, I use the 'If you can't see where the tires of the car in front you meet the road, you're too close' approach. This allows enough room for you to get out from behind without backing up, which is all one really needs.

If you get rear-ended, does it really matter if you bump the car ahead of you? You've already been in an accident (the rear-ending), your insurance is going up and your day has been ruined, why not share the fun?

 

[Tailgate]

Tailgate,
Yes, you can be cited for not leaving a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. The vehicle that hit you did not make contact with the car in front of you, your's did. If an adequate amount of distance is left between the two vehicles, the less the chance that your vehicle will hit the car in front. Most LEO's will take into consideration all information concerning the accident and make a judgment call as to whether the vehicle that was initially hit could have avoided hitting a second vehicle or not. It's not a given that you will be cited for hitting the car ahead of you. It can and does happen, though.

Here in the Columbus area, if you leave a safe gap between you and the car ahead of you, three cars and a tractor trailer will try to pull in front of you.

Okay, rbesr, according to this theory then if a driver, first in line is, say, 5 feet---or even less---from the crosswalk and this driver is rear-ended from behind by another driver resulting in first driver's vehicle bumping into a pedestrian in the crosswalk the first driver is going to be cited? I'm curious: what is the V.C. violation? And if it's illegal to stop, say a reasonalble 5 feet of so from the intersection line/crosswalk then why do the traffic engineers sign off on there not being an intersection line 20-30 feet before the crosswalk. I don't know about Ohio (and I'm starting to question this state's traffic laws) but in CA you are cited ONLY if you stop in or past the crosswalk. As long as you're stopped before the intersection line/crosswalk it it not a vehicle code violation. By the way, I now realize that few drivers I have noticed stop even more than 20 feet back, more like 30 feet. I'm not upset, but, it's a head scratcher. If it means, as a result, denying some poor blike already late to work access to a left-hand turn lane it then turns into an irritant.

 

[Hollow]

I don't know for sure the law with a car or motorcycle, but when I got my job with our water distritbution system I also got my cdl so I could drive the dump truck hauling the backhoe from job to job and back fill. I was taught to never ever stop to were you can not see the other cars rear tires. This also implies to when were driving regular company vehicles. It is for sure a safety thing. But you and I both have to remember there is retards that do stop 20ft or more back. I have seen it time and time again. It does piss me off but usually I keep my cool.

 

[jsteinb95]

I was taught to never ever stop to were you can not see the other cars rear tires.

+1
That's what I learned.