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High Altitude, can it screw up my engine?

VEGASRIDER

VEGASRIDER

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I have been having sputtering issues for a year now. More in 1st and 2nd gear, and even at idle. Not as noticeable at higher speeds. I've got new plugs, etc. I've put engine med, put premium in the tank for 3k miles, no fix. I am finally bringing my bike into the dealership and get it hooked up to their computers and see what kind of diagnostics comes up. I thought it was a TPS issue, but the numbers are within specs.

My question, I rode the Beartooth Higway last summer, going over 11,000 feet. And have ridden many other high elevations routes since then. Can these high altitudes cause my bike to run so horrible?
 
VEGASRIDER said:
I have been having sputtering issues for a year now. More in 1st and 2nd gear, and even at idle. Not as noticeable at higher speeds. I've got new plugs, etc. I've put engine med, put premium in the tank for 3k miles, no fix. I am finally bringing my bike into the dealership and get it hooked up to their computers and see what kind of diagnostics comes up. I thought it was a TPS issue, but the numbers are within specs.

My question, I rode the Beartooth Higway last summer, going over 11,000 feet. And have ridden many other high elevations routes since then. Can these high altitudes cause my bike to run so horrible?
Click to expand...

No idea if high alt can do this to the bike (my guess would be no.. certainly not long-term damage?), but how about TB sync? When was that done last? If that's way out of spec, it'll definitely cause jumpy idle and sputtering at low RPM.
 
Doubt it. I've ridden my Fizzer up here since '07, and have no sputtering problems.
How many miles on your Fizzer now, Kenny?
 
The ecu should be able to compensate for the altitude (within reason).
but Vegas has like 100k on it now.....so many miles for a bike.
 
The higher the altitude, the less oxygen,
Which will give you better fuel mileage.
But you make less horsepower.
If your oxygen sensor is going out,
If your bike has one,Gen 1 IDK.
?:confused:
We need one of our mechanical experts,
And an electrical one too.
You could write volumes of books,
About what I don't know!
Good Luck my Friend!
:cool:
Rich
 
VEGASRIDER said:
I have been having sputtering issues for a year now. More in 1st and 2nd gear, and even at idle. Not as noticeable at higher speeds. I've got new plugs, etc. I've put engine med, put premium in the tank for 3k miles, no fix. I am finally bringing my bike into the dealership and get it hooked up to their computers and see what kind of diagnostics comes up. I thought it was a TPS issue, but the numbers are within specs.

My question, I rode the Beartooth Higway last summer, going over 11,000 feet. And have ridden many other high elevations routes since then. Can these high altitudes cause my bike to run so horrible?
Click to expand...

11,000 feet is high... The air density is much thinner at that level vs sea level, so yes, performance will suffer.. How much, depends on the bike/engine.

I took my old KLR 250 to the Smokie Mountains one year on vacation. Its NOT a power house to start with at sea level. Out on the road, UP in the mountains, (higher elevation, 6-7K feet), even on level ground, I was downshifting MUCH more (definite power loss-carbed BTW) than at lower levels...
 
There is an air intake pressure sensor. This sensor should compensate for differences in altitude. As atmospheric pressure changes the ECM can make fuel and timing changes in accordance with atmosphere.

If there are no error codes present and considering your high mileage you might inspect throttle body boots and even think about a new set of injectors. Of course always look for the obvious like a loose vacuum line etc.
 
I know the TPS in my Miata would be okay at idle or WOT, but in between was sort of wonky, mostly noticeable at cruise. Lower gears were worse as the torque to the wheel felt greater, and the surging was more amplified. I found it out by looking at the TPS numbers using a scangauge while I drove. I know that's not something you can do with the bike, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.
 
Try regular instead of medium or super. At altitude you don't need a higher octane because the air is less dense, so less compression. Because higher octanes burn slower than lower ones, the bike will probably not run as well.
 
Not on the bike but in a 375hp cage at 14,000 feet it was down on power. Couple that with how many times you've twisted the throttle in 100,000 miles and you might have worn out the TPS! Although it may not be completely junk one has to wonder if its able to feed a continuous error free output after so many miles!

Something a little more abstract is the throttle shafts leaking air where they pass through. I mean they have no lube to speak of so I'm a little unclear just how long they'll last before leaking air. There are ways to test but unless its real bad, I'd think it would (might) impact all cylinders equally.

For S&G i run Techron injector cleaner proportioned to the tank size 3X a year. It can't hurt....

Lastly - as mentioned, valve clearance check, TB sync, test TPS, check for vacuum leaks at all places mentioned, compression check is not unreasonable at this stage either.... What plugs are in it and have you checked the wire leads into the caps?

Of course if your just sick of it there and the bike runs better here, well you could move back here! :D
 
beatle said:
I know the TPS in my Miata would be okay at idle or WOT, but in between was sort of wonky, mostly noticeable at cruise. Lower gears were worse as the torque to the wheel felt greater, and the surging was more amplified. I found it out by looking at the TPS numbers using a scangauge while I drove. I know that's not something you can do with the bike, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.
Click to expand...


I had someone who had a bad TPS on their car but my ohm meter showed it as perfect. Everything else pointed to the TPS so we replaced the TPS and it cured the stumbling. The number of samples the ECM reads from the TPS are probably in the realm of 100,000 per second. This means that a voltage or resistance measurement will not always tell all we need to know about the TPS.
The DVM will only tell us DC correlated or go/no go measurement. In the case with my friends car. There were valleys/gaps the meter did not respond to but those valleys registered as lows at the higher clock rates and the ECM responded with bad fuel injection resolution.

How old is the TPS? The TPS is a carbon and probably alloy wiper assembly. That wiper rides on the carbon. The carbon wears so the TPS on any vehicle can fail. It's not just the 2005 FZ6 that can fail because of the recall.

[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] Where's the "O" scope! :P
 
Motogiro said:
I had someone who had a bad TPS on their car but my ohm meter showed it as perfect. Everything else pointed to the TPS so we replaced the TPS and it cured the stumbling. The number of samples the ECM reads from the TPS are probably in the realm of 100,000 per second. This means that a voltage or resistance measurement will not always tell all we need to know about the TPS.
The DVM will only tell us DC correlated or go/no go measurement. In the case with my friends car. There were valleys/gaps the meter did not respond to but those valleys registered as lows at the higher clock rates and the ECM responded with bad fuel injection resolution.

How old is the TPS? The TPS is a carbon and probably alloy wiper assembly. That wiper rides on the carbon. The carbon wears so the TPS on any vehicle can fail. It's not just the 2005 FZ6 that can fail because of the recall.

[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] Where's the "O" scope! :P
Click to expand...


Makes sense ^^^^ as almost all switches wear out. The TPS is CONTANTLY moving whenever your riding. 100,000 miles is a bunch of movement/wear.

As noted, the basic's, valve spec's checked (if due), TB sync, spark plugs, etc should be performed before digging deeper..

IF (and even if its not) fuel system issues or carboned up cylinders are suspected, Yamaha Marine sells a product called "RingFree". It works similar to Techtron (which I also use) but besides cleaning the fuel system, it also cleans up the top end of the engine. Two and four strokes. Considerably more powerful than Techtron or Seafoam. Somewhat expensive initially but its used at 1oz per 10 gallons.. You can put it in "heavy" as well. Read the reviews... IME, their very accurate. I've been using it since 2007 in mostly the boat but occasionally the bike/SUV.

Ringfree:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Yamalube-Ring-Additive-ACC-RNGFR-PL-12/dp/B002GU4SN2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406635296&sr=8-1&keywords=ring+free+yamaha"]Amazon.com: Yamaha Yamalube Ring Free Plus Fuel Additive ACC-RNGFR-PL-12: Automotive[/ame]
 
Last edited:
FinalImpact said:
Not on the bike but in a 375hp cage at 14,000 feet it was down on power.
-->> Couple that with how many times you've twisted the throttle in 100,000 miles and you might have worn out the TPS! Although it may not be completely junk one has to wonder if its able to feed a continuous error free output after so many miles!

Something a little more abstract is the throttle shafts leaking air where they pass through. I mean they have no lube to speak of so I'm a little unclear just how long they'll last before leaking air. There are ways to test but unless its real bad, I'd think it would (might) impact all cylinders equally.

For S&G i run Techron injector cleaner proportioned to the tank size 3X a year. It can't hurt....

Lastly - as mentioned, valve clearance check, TB sync, test TPS, check for vacuum leaks at all places mentioned, compression check is not unreasonable at this stage either.... What plugs are in it and have you checked the wire leads into the caps?

Of course if your just sick of it there and the bike runs better here, well you could move back here! :D
Click to expand...

I guess thats 3 votes for TPS so take it to dealer or head back here and we can connect it to an O'scope and scrutinize the TPS output!

Replacement isn't that bad, just pull the TB off. In diagnostic mode get the lower number and while its off the bike, plug it in and return it to that value (tighten it back down while easy to get too). Confirm voltage output matches spec and drop the TB back on.
picture.php


Random pic...
picture.php
 
FinalImpact said:
I guess thats 3 votes for TPS so take it to dealer or head back here and we can connect it to an O'scope and scrutinize the TPS output!

Replacement isn't that bad, just pull the TB off. In diagnostic mode get the lower number and while its off the bike, plug it in and return it to that value (tighten it back down while easy to get too). Confirm voltage output matches spec and drop the TB back on.
picture.php


Random pic...
picture.php
Click to expand...

Your header should be half as clean as those pic's!!! Jeez :spank:
 
Thanks everyone. Appreciate everyone's input including some who have called. Hopefully, the mystery will be solved soon as it goes into the shop.

Valves were done once at 73k. Plugs has less than 5k miles. I've used engine med, similar to sea foam or other products. Switched to premium for the last 3000 miles. #1 guess, something with the TPS, maybe it has simplly worn out.

It would be nice to get my hands on a used one just in case.
 
FinalImpact said:
I found a project for you! R6S header, bolts on FZ, must run side pipe!
Can you save this one Scott? Its $100 on fleebay! lol
ABSOLUTE HOTNESS under that wrapper! Blah
Click to expand...

Me thinks that one's ready for the recycle bin... But I would let you detail my engine compartment, trottle bodies like those in the pic!


Back to the thread,

When was the last throttle body sync? They'll likely push that if its been awhile, figure at least $100. there. You can do it yourself cheaper even if you bought the Morgan tool, (or make your own).

Any good, used TPS's in the F/S section? There's been some motors blown up that the TPS should be good..

Good luck Vegas.
 
I just walked down to the dealership to see if they have an earlier time slot for me (live within walking distance), they do have a new one in stock in the event that it needs replacement. $179.00, + labor. Probably 2 hours, one hour for trouble shoot, another for replacing. If it's the TPS. I'm scheduled for the 8th of August.
 
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