2004 FZ6 fuel pump failure

[Motogiro]

Pump primes, bike starts, pump starts, engine runs for 1 second at ~1K rpm, another second engine misfires, 3rd second engine runs with a few cylinders lean firing, stalls on the 4th second, pump stops.

I just quickly scanned the thread so forgive me if I missed something.

From the schematics I've been looking at, the fuel pump relay is controlled by grounding the negative side of the fuel pump relay coil. The other side of the coils is 12 vdc when the key is turned on. The negative side of the coil is pulled to ground by the ECU, energizing the fuel pump relay. Obviously you hear the pump so we know the relay is energizing and passing current through it's contacts to the fuel pump. What we don't know is, whether the ECU is stopping the fuel pump, so I have an idea.

There is a wire at the ECU colored blue with a yellow tracer. This wire will be blue with a yellow stripe or yellow dots. Since I haven't seen any fuel pressure regulation I'd imagine it's done within the pump itself. set your meter to measure 12 vdc.Put the voltmeter positive lead on the blue with yellow tracer wire coming from the ECU. The negative meter lead goes to negative on the battery or a good engine/chassis ground. Start the bike and watch the voltage on the wire. It should stay at zero volts. If the voltage climbs up near 6 -12 volt the ECU is floating the ground which de-energizes the relay. This is probably due to a sensor input signal to the ECU and it thinks or knows something is wrong. If this test shows the ECU is lifting the ground you might want to try this. Disconnect the blue with yellow tracer wire from the ECU. Ground the blue with yellow tracer wire coming from the fuel pump relay. The ECU should not be attached to this wire when doing this!
Turn the key on. Does the fuel pump prime and shut off? If yes. start the bike. Does it run? If yes shut it off and remove the grounded wire and reattach the blue wire with yellow tracer to the ECU as it was originally. At no time should you ground the ECU side of this wire. If it runs you've now confirmed the fuel pump works and there is probably a sensor/logic problem.

Try this and get back to us!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From what I'm reading in the 04 manual(page 7-29), the gauge has an adaptor that goes inbetween the fuel line and the rail:

a. Remove the seat fuel tank.
Refer to “SEAT AND FUEL TANK” in chapter
3.
b. Connect the pressure gauge 1 and adapter
2 onto the fuel injection pipe.
Pressure gauge
90890-03153, YU-03153
Adapter
90890-03176, YM-03176
c. Install the fuel tank.
Refer to “FUEL TANK” in chapter 3.
d. Start the engine.
e. Measure the fuel pressure.
Fuel pressure
250 kPa (2.5 kg/cm2, 36.3 psi)
Faulty Replace the fuel pump assembly.

 

[FinalImpact]

The fuel rail is solid except for the pop-off valve, and 4 injector holes. There is no Schrader valve or nipple on the fuel rail. I'd have to put one inline with the fuel line. Not thrilled with that idea.

The pump bench tested with 12VDC and it buzzed. I didn't bench pressure test the pump.

Plan B: Buy an oil or fuel pressure gauge and isolate the fuel pump output line directly to the gauge. Key ON pressure. Start pressure. Stall pressure.

Plan C: Walk the bike to the Yamaha dealer and pay them $100 to troubleshoot.

I didn't remember seeing it but because it can be tested thought there was a bolt that could be removed.
The fuel line is here just below the idle speed adjust. If you power the pump directly and it changes nothing, then you know its not the power to the pump causing the issue. There are other options for checking pressure, either at the pulse damper or replace the HP line between the pump and fuel rails with your own creation having a gauge. Again "testing only".

 

[fazil]

Any good news ?
Still not running?

 

[Hayabusafiend]

Any good news ?
Still not running?

No good news. All troubleshooting indicates the fuel pump you sold me is defective. It isn't maintaining 35psi.

I'm throwing in the towel and taking the FZ6 to my local Yamaha dealer for troubleshooting. That way if the dealer tell me the pump assembly is defective, and I buy a new $600 assembly and it doesn't fix the bike, *dealer* has to refund the new assembly.

If *I* buy the pump assembly without the dealer troubleshooting and am wrong, I'm out $600.

Once I get an answer from the dealer, let's talk about how to handle the used fuel pump.

I'll update this thread with the dealer results.

 

[fazil]

I'll make a full refund if the pump is defective.
I hope it isn't though.

 

[Hayabusafiend]

I'll make a full refund if the pump is defective.
I hope it isn't though.

The dealer service manager just called me. The pump is defective. That sucks. As everyone here knows, a new pump assembly is $600. I'm having the dealer install a new pump.

Fazil: I'm not mad at you. There's no way you could have known the pump wasn't working properly.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The dealer service manager just called me. The pump is defective. That sucks. As everyone here knows, a new pump assembly is $600. I'm having the dealer install a new pump.

Fazil: I'm not mad at you. There's no way you could have known the pump wasn't working properly.

$434.00 NEW, here:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2004 FZ6 - FZ600SSC FUEL TANK Diagram

Might want to do some wheeling and dealing... :thumbup:

BTW, Yamaha recommends replacing the main, large o-ring seal (called a gasket on the parts fisch) that goes between the tank and the pump..

 

[skooter65]

The dealer service manager just called me. The pump is defective. That sucks. As everyone here knows, a new pump assembly is $600. I'm having the dealer install a new pump.

Fazil: I'm not mad at you. There's no way you could have known the pump wasn't working properly.

Sorry to hear that this is giving you so much trouble. I would be willing to offer you a trial-run with the fuel pump I have for sale. Just pay shipping and use it to troubleshoot. It came out of a perfectly running 07' model so you shouldn't have any issue getting it to spool properly. Then, if all is well, just pay the remaining when you are satisfied.

Link to the pump: http://www.600riders.com/forum/bikes-parts-sale/49056-f-s-fuel-pump-w-mount-ring.html

Let me know!

 

[fazil]

So sorry about the fuel pump if it is defective and for the times that you couldn't ride your bike.
Pm sent about the refund.

 

[Nelly]

The dealer service manager just called me. The pump is defective. That sucks. As everyone here knows, a new pump assembly is $600. I'm having the dealer install a new pump.

Fazil: I'm not mad at you. There's no way you could have known the pump wasn't working properly.

Wow, that sucks. After all your hard work in trying to rectify the problem. Kudos to you for taking it further than many of us would have or could have.
Out of interest how did the dealer check pump pressure?

Neil

 

[motojoe122]

So sorry about the fuel pump if it is defective and for the times that you couldn't ride your bike.
Pm sent about the refund.

I'm very impressed on your actions for the refund. Kudos to you brother:thumbup: And a rep is on its way..which reminds me, I need to send one to Skooter65 too!

 

[Hayabusafiend]

Wow, that sucks. After all your hard work in trying to rectify the problem. Kudos to you for taking it further than many of us would have or could have.
Out of interest how did the dealer check pump pressure?

Neil

The dealer tech used a separate test pump and fuel supply, and the bike "ran flawlessly." There's no need to check pump pressure when you have a known-good pump on the bench.

I don't know if the tech used the bike power supply or not, so there's a slim chance the issue is power. That's why I'm having the dealer install a new pump just in case they're wrong.

 

[Nelly]

I'm very impressed on your actions for the refund. Kudos to you brother:thumbup: And a rep is on its way..which reminds me, I need to send one to Skooter65 too!

Need to send rep to someone else before Fazil gets it again.
Agreed, Kudos and fair play to you Fazil.

Nelly

 

[Hayabusafiend]

Well, turns out the dealer tech troubleshooting was correct: defective fuel pump. A new fuel pump has it running flawlessly. It's a stunning $800 repair (pump+troubleshooting+install).

I'm headed to the dealer now to pick up the FZ6 and ride it home.

I was really hoping the tech was wrong about Fazil's used pump being defective. By and large, this situation sucks. I'm out a pile of cash. Fazil is out a fuel pump, and my wife is *still* pissed about how much time I've spent troubleshooting.

For the record, I'm not mad a Fazil. There's no way he could have known the pump he sold me was defective.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's troubleshooting help, pics and ideas.

 

[fazil]

Refund sent.
Glad that you're on the road again.

 

[Hayabusafiend]

Looks like this forums's domain changed. I edited the image links with the new 600riders.com domain to fix the images.

 

[FinalImpact]

Thanks for updating the links!

Hindsight says you were so close on this... Looking back I bet a tiny piece of debris got stuck in the pressure regulator and basically made a leak internal to the fuel tank which prevented the pump assembly from building pressure.

I made a thread on how to troubleshoot just in case something like this happens again.




Thread is here or click picture to follow link--> FUEL TANK, FUEL PUMP, AND FUEL GAUGE

So, is the bike still running? Tank is OK?

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

Well, turns out the dealer tech troubleshooting was correct: defective fuel pump. A new fuel pump has it running flawlessly. It's a stunning $800 repair (pump+troubleshooting+install).

I'm headed to the dealer now to pick up the FZ6 and ride it home.

I was really hoping the tech was wrong about Fazil's used pump being defective. By and large, this situation sucks. I'm out a pile of cash. Fazil is out a fuel pump, and my wife is *still* pissed about how much time I've spent troubleshooting.

For the record, I'm not mad a Fazil. There's no way he could have known the pump he sold me was defective.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's troubleshooting help, pics and ideas.

Oh wow....not to stir up the pain for ousting the cash..but that was a very expensive repair cost I've heard given your bike is 2004 (could have ordered the brand new $434 right?)- is it the only commute motorized vehicle you had? I guessed it is

Sorry about the troubles and I'm glad you are now able to ride again ...

thx,j