Changing Starter Moter

[TownsendsFJR1300]

While searching for something else, I came across this. Some interesting reading for you:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/56679-short-starter-switch-mid-ride.html

 

[Motogiro]

While searching for something else, I came across this. Some interesting reading for you:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/56679-short-starter-switch-mid-ride.html

This was why I mentioned trying to deduce where the problem originated from in my post #11.

Was or/and why the starter might have been stuck in the on/engaged mode? I've never seen one fail, but is there a possibility the sprague clutch assembly has failed and is keeping the starter engaged?

 

[FinalImpact]

... ... ..

Was or/and why the starter might have been stuck in the on/engaged mode? I've never seen one fail, but is there a possibility the sprague clutch assembly has failed and is keeping the starter engaged?

In that case it just became a generator!!!! Blah :spank:
<Insert walk of shame here.....>

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

In that case it just became a generator!!!!

NOW, we have plenty of power for auxiliary electrical goodies!!!

 

[FinalImpact]

As you know I have an FZ wiring harness, ecu, ect on my floor. That start switch is pretty robust and uses a double lever action to take minimal movement and engage contacts quickly. Inside it uses a coil spring to keep it normally open and all of the pivots are tiny roll pins. So short of conductive contamination entering it, it **appears** to be a pretty good design. Oh - the contacts are literally an 1/8" apart....

PS our generator theory with the failed sprague clutch would need the starter relay closed and conducting to get all those megawatts of energy back into the system! We need two failure at the same time!

 

[gnyce]

I was never able to figure out why mine went 'bad'... while taking it apart, I fumbled-fingered and basically dropped it, spring came out, etc... not exactly a clean chain of evidence. All I can say is, I have had nary a problem after replacing the starter/kill switch assembly (and as I originally stated, I had stopped using the kill switch). Can't explain it, seems like a one-off based on others' experiences, but there you go.

"Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

Whenever I had trouble starting it, that one click, I would play around with the start button and it didn't do anything different. I had taken the assembly apart a bit and looked around, not all the way apart, but didn't see any corrosion and put it back on. I went ahead and ordered a true Yamaha starter relay. At first it didn't want to start and now it wants to start on its own Blah

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Whenever I had trouble starting it, that one click, I would play around with the start button and it didn't do anything different. I had taken the assembly apart a bit and looked around, not all the way apart, but didn't see any corrosion and put it back on. I went ahead and ordered a true Yamaha starter relay. At first it didn't want to start and now it wants to start on its own Blah

Right now, in bold ^^^, it still tries to start?

Also, it sounds like the push button is fine from what you describe.

 

[Motogiro]

Now that you've established you have a runaway starter you can start eliminating the circuit that is causing the malfunction. This may have been happening intermittently and in fact still be the case. Hopefully the condition stays and you can easily track it down.

With even the intermittent failure of this type you would experience all of the following possibilities in full or part.
Dead battery.
Burned starter relay.
Burned starter wire.
Burned starter.

When you turn your key to on, the starter engages without you pushing the starter button. Put the bike on the center stand. Put the bike in gear. Turn the key on. The starter should not engage. If it does not engage it's likely the starter button failure.

It could be there is a shorted/pinched wire.

If the starter does engage while in gear the problem points toward the starter cutoff assembly.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Now that you've established you have a runaway starter you can start eliminating the circuit that is causing the malfunction. This may have been happening intermittently and in fact still be the case. Hopefully the condition stays and you can easily track it down. .

Sent you a PM Cliff..

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

The relay came in this evening but didn't have a chance to put it on. I'll put it on tomorrow and do some testing hopefully before the rain gets here. I'd like to get a ride in staying close to home for about an hour and see what happens. Hopefully this does it!

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

Right now, in bold ^^^, it still tries to start?

Also, it sounds like the push button is fine from what you describe.

No, doesn't still try to start. I meant that one time while I was riding home.

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

Now that you've established you have a runaway starter you can start eliminating the circuit that is causing the malfunction. This may have been happening intermittently and in fact still be the case. Hopefully the condition stays and you can easily track it down.

With even the intermittent failure of this type you would experience all of the following possibilities in full or part.
Dead battery.
Burned starter relay.
Burned starter wire.
Burned starter.

When you turn your key to on, the starter engages without you pushing the starter button. Put the bike on the center stand. Put the bike in gear. Turn the key on. The starter should not engage. If it does not engage it's likely the starter button failure.

I'm confused by this....the starter has never started without the button except for that one time while riding home. I have it on the center stand, in gear with the key on and the starter is not supposed to engage but if it doesn't engage there is a failure in the button?

It could be there is a shorted/pinched wire.

If the starter does engage while in gear the problem points toward the starter cutoff assembly.

I must be missing something....engage = starts? It's never started while in gear

 

[Motogiro]

I must be missing something....engage = starts? It's never started while in gear

Maybe I'm missing something? At first it didn't want to start and now it wants to start on its own. Starter engagement means the starter motor runs it does not mean the engine runs.

I thought you were saying when you turn the key on, the starter engages on it's own without you hitting the starter button. The subsequent test procedures mentioned were to possibly isolate where a malfunction was occurring.

Can you confirm if the starter engages when you turn the key on without hitting the starter button while in neutral?

The starter circuit on this bike is composed of more than the starter button, starter relay and starter. There is another safety circuit in conjunction with the ECU that also control starter function.

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

I'm sorry, no it doesn't. I was joking around. ..was referring to when the starter kicked in while I was riding home the other day.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ya get the new relay in and test? Curious minds want to know....

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

Got the new relay in, still a bit sluggish starting up. Took it for a ride today after work. Expressway to get up some speed and then some back streets home. Got home and turned off the bike, go to start back up and very sluggish. Oh, fan was on too, for some reason the bike got too hot. I'm in New Orleans and had the bike a bit over 3 years. Fan has come on maybe 2-3 times before. I take it to the back and check the battery, it's ok but while it's running I notice this sound and it's not a good sound. Not the same sound as the starter before...that loud whirring sound but more a sound like..this doesn't sound good at all! kinda sound. Maybe a churning sound right in the area of the starter I checked the oil, I had done an oil change about 2 weeks ago...it was ok. So I'm thinking order a new starter or maybe rebuild? When I was checking the battery it was 12.8(9), go to start and it dropped to 9, while running (I forgot to get the rpm's up) but it was at 13.09 and climbing. sigh....

 

[FinalImpact]

Dang, resolove is not a one step process! Fan on, when not needed AND starter acting up all point to ECU misbehaving...
Time to UNLPUG everything and inspect connections for Growth!!

 

[IAMJUSTIFYD]

^^^ that would be the best place to start, no pune intended.

Its pretty rare for a solenoid of that type to self engage, if it were mine I would be inspecting all major connectors for growth. Just pull the 35 Amp fuse before unplugging a bunch of stuff.

Left side inner fairing connections (PITA to get apart).
Left Pod starter relay - big one, most wires.
ECU just push down and pull back. All should be clean and shinny, nothing growing...

Gonna try and check this stuff this evening. And I have to ask cause I don't know but why pull the fuse? So it won't get blown?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Besides the above, fully charge the battery and get it LOAD TESTED. Once we have a known good battery, check the charging voltage. 13.09 is barely charging

Dropping to 9 volts cranking does indicate generally a failing battery.

Here's a video, with voltages of mine WITH a FAILING BATTERY. Take note of the voltage drop (not nearly as low as yours) as well as the running voltages.
This is WITH the dual headlight mod as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/

(The battery just came off the charger as well)