Low voltage warning, head light cutoff circuit design notes

[FinalImpact]

We would need a driver capable of a constant current output. We would create a sense network to read current and feed this to a micro. At the same time, the micro would be reading the digital output of the tach. Based on the information gathered from the tach, the contant current output could be scaled back by switching between pre-designed circuits utilizing JFETS for selectable constant current outputs depending on the desired light output.

I might start toying with this idea.

And yes sir, I am on the team at Lutron

Just curious, why sample the RPM as not all low RPM conditions equal low battery voltage. However, low RPM over time (look up table) and this does equate to a low battery.

With LED H4's consumption drops to 20 watts or less. Me personallly I'm not big on night rides, so the lighting is about being seen vs seeing. In this case, the LED's could be a viable option to reduce the current drain on the battery.

Above there are several references to PWM - Pulse Width Modulation which to give everyone context a 12 volt battery outputs 100% duty cycle - or Direct Current - DC. Modulating a DC output to a lamp can reduce energy needs just putting out a pulse of that DC over time vs 100% energy all the time.

 

[fastar1]

I have a simple solution.

Get an LED that's sensitive to voltage. At 12.5 V (or whatever) it turns off. When the light goes out, the seat-to-handlebar interface device (rider) yanks on a wire to the one of the forward illumination devices (headlights), causing a disruption in the electron flow field, thereby saving the planet.
When the LED turns back on, he plugs it back in.

 

[texcollect]

I am planning on adding some auxiliary lights and wanted to keep my eye on the voltage so I just bought one of thesehttp://sparkbright.co.uk/products/product_eclipse810.html I'll let you know how I get on with it.


Sent from my Kindle Fire HD using tapatalk HD

 

[Nelly]

Over the past couple years several members have ran into trouble from low batteries do to prolonged idle time. Most have dual head lights but not all and if the bike is below 1800 RPM for too long the battery discharges to a point of not being able to continue operation.

My goal here is to discuss some design options to A) warn the rider the battery voltage is an issue and B) potentially drop one of the dual headlights to reduce the load. This last choice comes at a RISK and a good deal of consideration is required before chopping the headlight power. It could be the only safe bet is USER INTERVENTION vs automation.... The other option is too increase idle RPM with a simple solenoid but once again this comes at with RISK!!!

Initially I was looking for an Off The Self (OTS) solution but didn't find anything except for home and RV use which is overkill for our needs. I did find an Integrated Circuit (IC) that does most of the logic detection for us. We simply need to give it some limits to work with. The cost for the IC is close to $5.00 alone. The rest of the cost would be for a housing, resistors, diodes, FETs, and relay or switch assembly. So if not sourced correctly, the cost could easily be over $40 in materials alone. Is that worth it?

Here is one option and I'd guess there are many others. So if someone know of something, feel free to share.

*** ***
http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX8211-MAX8212.pdf

From Manufacture:
Maxim’s MAX8211 and MAX8212 are CMOS micropower voltage detectors that warn microprocessors (μPs) of power failures. Each contains a comparator, a 1.5V bandgap reference, and an open-drain n-channel output driver. Two external resistors are used in conjunction with the internal reference to set the trip voltage to the desired level. A hysteresis output is also included, allowing the user to apply positive feedback for noise-free output switching.
The MAX8211 provides a 7mA current-limited output sink whenever the voltage applied to the threshold pin is less than the 1.5V internal reference. In the MAX8212, a voltage greater than 1.5V at the threshold pin turns the output stage on (no current limit).

*** ***

The basic schematic is very simple and needs only wires, resistors, and an LED to notify the rider there is a problem. Cost could be as little as $10.
The built in hysteresis (trip margin of detection) could use an electrolytic capacitor (RC time constant) to keep it latched for short period of time, but an actual circuit in addition to the basic one here would be best just so the light doesn't flash on/off when hovering at the trip point. Also to drive a relay (head light relay if someone wanted to drop one head light), would require a small signal amplifier like a MOS-FET device to drive the relay.
I just wanted you to see how simple this is with one basic component.

View attachment 49202

This is an open discussion for NEEDS that could be employed to help reduce dead batteries BUT SAFETY MUST COME FIRST! Please try to stay on topic. Thanks!

I dislike attempting anything electrical, I have a decent grasp of electrics but often find electrical issues a nightmare to deal with.
I really like the "KISS" approach to problem solving and with this in mind I think it would just be easier and less battery drain to install a switch to turn the lights off.
The reason I say this is that most battery issues involve cold starting. I would like a switch to turn the lights off prior to starting and then switch them on as I ride just like the old days.

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I dislike attempting anything electrical, I have a decent grasp of electrics but often find electrical issues a nightmare to deal with.
I really like the "KISS" approach to problem solving and with this in mind I think it would just be easier and less battery drain to install a switch to turn the lights off.
The reason I say this is that most battery issues involve cold starting. I would like a switch to turn the lights off prior to starting and then switch them on as I ride just like the old days.

Nelly

Doesn't your headlights stay off until the engines running? The US version does.

 

[Motogiro]

Doesn't your headlights stay off until the engines running? The US version does.

Yes. All US and Euro model FZ-6 use this approach. When the engine has started the ECU enables the headlight circuit relay.

Sent from Moto's Droid using Tapatalk 2 :mikebike:

 

[mave2911]

Doesn't your headlights stay off until the engines running? The US version does.

Same with the Australian version.

The lights DO stay on, however, if you hit the kill-switch, and don't turn the key to off. I use this when I get home early morning, so I can see the gate, to close it, but not have the bike running and waking people up (thanks to Townsend recommending I remove the DB killers.....)

Cheers,
Rick

 

[Nelly]

Doesn't your headlights stay off until the engines running? The US version does.

Sorry I wasn't very clear the main lights are off but the side lights are constantly on and dim substantially when cold starting.

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Same with the Australian version.

The lights DO stay on, however, if you hit the kill-switch, and don't turn the key to off. I use this when I get home early morning, so I can see the gate, to close it, but not have the bike running and waking people up (thanks to Townsend recommending I remove the DB killers.....)

Cheers,
Rick

LOL!!!

But it sounds good don't it!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yes. All US and Euro model FZ-6 use this approach. When the engine has started the ECU enables the headlight circuit relay.

Sent from Moto's Droid using Tapatalk 2 :mikebike:

Thought so..


Sent from TownsendsFJR1300 slow ass, 3 year old, Dell lap top

 

[Motogiro]

My SV uses an unloader approach. When you turn the key to the on position all the lights including the headlights come on. When you depress the starter button the headlamp go out during the starter cranking period and come back on after the starter button is released. My bike also has a park position on the ignition switch so that only the running lights and flasher circuit are enabled.

 

[mave2911]

LOL!!!

But it sounds good don't it!!

Oh yeah, can't believe I waited so long!

LOL!

 

[FinalImpact]

^^
All good ^^

Question; anyone have any experience with LEDs in H4 H7 format?

What seems pathetic is at times when all is good, (like when the battery doesn't need charging), the regulator is dissipating heat in WATTs as the system doesn't have a use for it. i.e. cruising for hours at speed. Thus a switch and the voltmeter - those that have a problem, the problem is solved.

 

[chunkygoat]

^^
All good ^^

Question; anyone have any experience with LEDs in H4 H7 format?

What seems pathetic is at times when all is good, (like when the battery doesn't need charging), the regulator is dissipating heat in WATTs as the system doesn't have a use for it. i.e. cruising for hours at speed. Thus a switch and the voltmeter - those that have a problem, the problem is solved.

I may be able to build a surface mount board with some high power LEDs and mount them onto an old h4/h7 socket - if anybody has any spare ones laying around. Heatsyncing would be a concern but I would give it a shot.

And btw you could use an analogue digital converter fed to a micro - you could program the micro to say whenever the incoming byte of data = whatever you want, make the output of your headlight relay open. An easier, automated way to perform the manual action itself.

 

[FinalImpact]

I may be able to build a surface mount board with some high power LEDs and mount them onto an old h4/h7 socket - if anybody has any spare ones laying around. Heatsyncing would be a concern but I would give it a shot.

And btw you could use an analogue digital converter fed to a micro - you could program the micro to say whenever the incoming byte of data = whatever you want, make the output of your headlight relay open. An easier, automated way to perform the manual action itself.

In just few years there are so many choices now; have you done search of late? I'm not saying these are the ones as they have minimal spec and I don't know what your skills or supply chain is all about. Anyway here is just one OTSS... H4 for $10. Almost solves the problem itself.
Free Shipping H4 LED 3528 102 SMD Cool White Headlight Bulb Car Head Light 12V DC New-in Light Source from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com

Also, if you plan to modulate I would opt for being seen and modulate at level that meets the code for motorcycles to be more easily seen. Added perk is saving the battery. :thumbup:

 

[chunkygoat]

In just few years there are so many choices now; have you done search of late? I'm not saying these are the ones as they have minimal spec and I don't know what your skills or supply chain is all about. Anyway here is just one OTSS... H4 for $10. Almost solves the problem itself.
Free Shipping H4 LED 3528 102 SMD Cool White Headlight Bulb Car Head Light 12V DC New-in Light Source from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com

Also, if you plan to modulate I would opt for being seen and modulate at level that meets the code for motorcycles to be more easily seen. Added perk is saving the battery. :thumbup:

I noticed it is only a 15w load which does not have a terrible amount of intensity as compared to some larger loads. I would still prefer to create our own, unless we can find a reputable manufacturer. I will do some snooping around as well. The load is not neccesarily the difficult part....LED's are very simple to work with - its usually dealing with the huge inrush currents and dissipating the heat that are the issues with driving them. The load itself should be easy to either find or create. Driving them will be the true fun.

I have a long trip coming up that I will use the time to research some of our load options. I have my arduino uno r3 already wired PWM a massive array of over 100 RGB LEDs almost at 1a. I think with a minimal amount of design I can actually alter this circuit to help us drive a higher powered H7/H4 LED array in a very similar fashion.

I will post again when I have some progress. I really like this idea because I was a week away from replacing with xenon HID lamps/ballast with the halo eyes...but I would much rather prefer a unique approach to this that doesn't appear to be popular yet!

That an LED's are like black magic.

 

[chunkygoat]

H7 LED Conversion

It appears somebody has already done this for us. H4/H7 LED conversions are available - I am unsure at this point if the clearance will be sufficient to physically fit the new lamps in the sockets. I purchased a pair to test and I will take it from there.

I am not sure I like the idea of utilizing 1/4w diodes versus a larger 35w diode. I am also not sure how heat dissipation will work, I anticipate while moving air flow will suffice to cool the loads - but sitting idle may be of concern. I am eying up a 35w diode as an alternative as well. I will try a comparison to see what light output looks like before and after the conversion. I also will try to document current draw comparisons as well to see if we can prevent any excess loading down of the battery.

In just few years there are so many choices now; have you done search of late? I'm not saying these are the ones as they have minimal spec and I don't know what your skills or supply chain is all about. Anyway here is just one OTSS... H4 for $10. Almost solves the problem itself.
Free Shipping H4 LED 3528 102 SMD Cool White Headlight Bulb Car Head Light 12V DC New-in Light Source from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com

Also, if you plan to modulate I would opt for being seen and modulate at level that meets the code for motorcycles to be more easily seen. Added perk is saving the battery. :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I noticed on that link, it mentions its a fog light:

"Xenon White Headlight Bulb Fog Light Lamp US", which is usually a low, short and wide light lattern...

 

[FinalImpact]

I noticed on that link, it mentions its a fog light:

"Xenon White Headlight Bulb Fog Light Lamp US", which is usually a low, short and wide light lattern...

Yes it says that - One would "THINK" that H4 or H7 is in fact what it says it is. Our bikes just happen to use these as main lighting. The most common application is secondary lighting like Fogs....

AGAIN - JUST AN EXAMPLE that Technology has changed since our bikes were manufactured! LEDs MAY be an option! So pick your poison...

Besides most of the pattern is decided by the housing and reflector ("which is usually a low, short and wide light Plattern.").

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Their selling a bulb, not the reflector(yes there is a small reflector inside the bulb). I'd be making some phone calls before purchasing to see exactly what its does.

Why they would advertise it as a "FOG LIGHT" vs a regular driving bulb (LD). Doesn't make sense..

I just sent the seller a "ask the seller a question" and will post when i hear seomthing.