Red Light Madness! Gov't Out of Control

Ohendo

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We've all had the issue where you roll up to a traffic signal and the wire loop sensor fails to recognize the FZ, forcing you to either run the light, wait for a cager to trip it, or perform some other maneuver. Well I've got a new issue that may become more prevalent as it is adopted further.

On Route 3 (West Chester Pike) in West Chester, PA, a particular stretch runs through a township called East Goshen. There are five traffic lights on Rte 3 controlled by this township. They've taken it upon themselves to program the lights differently on off peak hours vs peak hours. Here's the deal: From 10pm to about 6am, these traffic signals sense your approach (using a camera or light detector or something) and turn the signal to red just as you get close, forcing you to stop abruptly. As soon as you've come to a complete stop, the light changes back to green. Each of the five lights I mentioned does this. So if you're driving along the route in the middle of the night, with no traffic to speak of, you will get stopped at five traffic lights in a row guaranteed. Going slower or faster produces no remedy. Annoying waste of brake pad during stop and fuel on restart.

To make matters worse, there's a flaw in the programming. The signal can sense a motorcycle approaching, and turns to red. But for whatever reason the signal fails to sense the bike sitting at the light, so it STAYS RED indefinitely! Imagine five lights in a row, each one turning red on you and failing to ever turn green, forcing you to run five signals consecutively.

I wrote the township manager who said they have done this as part of a new federal program to reduce accidents by speeders and drunk drivers on major roads. I say it's another case of government run amok, and a new method of entrapment to catch an unaware motorist running a red light. The LEO often sit just past one of the five lights waiting for a red light runner.

I need to find a new route and avoid this stretch of road!:banghead:
 

lawlberg

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Sounds really frustrating. There's definitely something to be said for slowing drunks down this way, but forcing them to make quick stops could very easily increase accidents, and the frustration and a buzz could lead to more dangerous maneuvers than a lack of sobriety alone. (Though it would definitely make it easier for the LEOs to figure out who the drunks are)

Have you considered going stealth and riding on sidewalks? Stop by the local bar and pick up a fatty to help you trip the sensor? Possibly attach an electromagnet to the underside of the headers?
 

Randomchaos

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Luckily here in TN, if you are on a motorcycle and a light wont trigger to green, you can legally treat it as a stop sign, as long as there is no traffic behind you to trigger the light, and there is no cross traffic that you will collide with.
 

Marthy

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Luckily here in TN, if you are on a motorcycle and a light wont trigger to green, you can legally treat it as a stop sign, as long as there is no traffic behind you to trigger the light, and there is no cross traffic that you will collide with.

Nice... need to check the regulation in Florida
 

Ohendo

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Luckily here in TN, if you are on a motorcycle and a light wont trigger to green, you can legally treat it as a stop sign, as long as there is no traffic behind you to trigger the light, and there is no cross traffic that you will collide with.

I'm aware of that law in your state and several others, but most of them require you to wait one or two light cycles before proceeding. So you're still sitting for a couple minutes. And what constitutes a cycle if the light is solid red, not actually cycling since no other cars are around to trip it?
 

SweaterDude

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We've all had the issue where you roll up to a traffic signal and the wire loop sensor fails to recognize the FZ, forcing you to either run the light, wait for a cager to trip it, or perform some other maneuver. Well I've got a new issue that may become more prevalent as it is adopted further.

On Route 3 (West Chester Pike) in West Chester, PA, a particular stretch runs through a township called East Goshen. There are five traffic lights on Rte 3 controlled by this township. They've taken it upon themselves to program the lights differently on off peak hours vs peak hours. Here's the deal: From 10pm to about 6am, these traffic signals sense your approach (using a camera or light detector or something) and turn the signal to red just as you get close, forcing you to stop abruptly. As soon as you've come to a complete stop, the light changes back to green. Each of the five lights I mentioned does this. So if you're driving along the route in the middle of the night, with no traffic to speak of, you will get stopped at five traffic lights in a row guaranteed. Going slower or faster produces no remedy. Annoying waste of brake pad during stop and fuel on restart.

To make matters worse, there's a flaw in the programming. The signal can sense a motorcycle approaching, and turns to red. But for whatever reason the signal fails to sense the bike sitting at the light, so it STAYS RED indefinitely! Imagine five lights in a row, each one turning red on you and failing to ever turn green, forcing you to run five signals consecutively.

I wrote the township manager who said they have done this as part of a new federal program to reduce accidents by speeders and drunk drivers on major roads. I say it's another case of government run amok, and a new method of entrapment to catch an unaware motorist running a red light. The LEO often sit just past one of the five lights waiting for a red light runner.

I need to find a new route and avoid this stretch of road!:banghead:

Yet another reason to GTFO of PA once i graduate. its funny how they engineer things to be a MF-PITA up north, where as things are usually "engineered" to make things more efficient. You know like when late at night the main road blinks yellow and the intersecting streets blink red. Here in Middletown, PA we have a light that ALL DAY, yep the whole F***in' Day, stays red in all directions until tripped. so no matter which way you come from you have to stop and wait. did i mention this light is on a 45mph road. PennDOT can gfts for all i care.

Oh, also how long is the yellow light? seriously, time the yellow light. it is mandatory that a yellow light lasts at least 3 seconds by law. if its less than a 3 second yellow i'd bring that up if you ever get pulled over.
 

cmantis

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"Nice... need to check the regulation in Florida"

"Should be the same in FL."

Regulation on picking up fatties at the bar? :eek:
 

pookamatic

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That's messed up. Stopping ALL traffic in a potentially unsafe and undoubtedly wasteful manner multiple times is criminal. The logic that it will help catch a few additional intoxicated drivers is BS. Stick to occasionally annoying sober motorists with checkpoints and using actual police work to detect DUIs.

In other news, Ohendo, we should meet up for a ride. My buddy lives lives just off five points and rt 3 and we get together on the weekends. PM your # if interested.
 

dxh24

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They aren't selling the "the government is not out to get you" thing very well with this lol. Making lights go red on purpose to catch people blowing them, drunk or otherwise... Just asking for trouble
 

Erci

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Rules vary state to state, but most still do not have any provisions to allow motorcycles to proceed through RED and most lights still use magnets instead of motion sensors :(

This *should* get better with time (we are relatively well represented in gov'ment.. thank you AMA!), but for now we have to do the best we can.

Some ways to handle it:

- Make a right turn on red (if your state/town allows it) and turn around at the closest legal spot.

- Find alternate routes, if you know of certain intersections which never work right.
 

kylez6

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I don't think there is anything in NY state about red lights and motorcycles... And tons of lights here are by sensor. But anyway a radical thought is to put traffic circle in these small towns. I know a couple of the small towns in our area did that to slow traffic logically and efficiently. Now the only problem is getting people to use them right....:(
 

dxh24

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I don't think there is anything in NY state about red lights and motorcycles... And tons of lights here are by sensor. But anyway a radical thought is to put traffic circle in these small towns. I know a couple of the small towns in our area did that to slow traffic logically and efficiently. Now the only problem is getting people to use them right....:(

I have a traffic roundabout in my little town, works well but some people just blow through it whether you're coming or not.

I could be wrong but I think NY does have a red light as a stop sign rule after a given period of time. Ill see if I can find it when I'm home
 

greg

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i failed my car driving test because it was one of those sensor controlled ones. I saw it was red, approached it slowly, it changed to green, and then quickly changed to red again. I stopped and waited about 5 minutes for it to change back to green. In the end the examiner made me drive backwards and then started waving his clip board at the light, eventually getting it to change.
 

pookamatic

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I wrote the township manager who said they have done this as part of a new federal program to reduce accidents by speeders and drunk drivers on major roads. I say it's another case of government run amok, and a new method of entrapment to catch an unaware motorist running a red light. The LEO often sit just past one of the five lights waiting for a red light runner.

I need to find a new route and avoid this stretch of road!:banghead:

I don't think you need to find a new stretch of road. The township needs to find a way to get you, and all its citizens, a way to get to/from their destination without this ridiculous system in place. You have a dialog with the manager. Did you get anything back in the way of a resolution?
 

Ohendo

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I don't think you need to find a new stretch of road. The township needs to find a way to get you, and all its citizens, a way to get to/from their destination without this ridiculous system in place. You have a dialog with the manager. Did you get anything back in the way of a resolution?

Not much of a dialogue, really. I emailed him my questions and concerns, and he simply explained to me how it is and why. So that's the resolution, basically: They've instituted a federal program, so deal with it.
I also mentioned my trouble triggering the lights while on the bike, so part of his reply was that I should buy a magnetic type device that attaches to the bike to help trigger the wire loop.
Gee, thanks Mr. Township Manager.
 

Smersh

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Not much of a dialogue, really. I emailed him my questions and concerns, and he simply explained to me how it is and why. So that's the resolution, basically: They've instituted a federal program, so deal with it.
I also mentioned my trouble triggering the lights while on the bike, so part of his reply was that I should buy a magnetic type device that attaches to the bike to help trigger the wire loop.
Gee, thanks Mr. Township Manager.

I'd write to your representative - to my surprise, Ive seen things start to move when locals receive a call from up above.
 

yamihoe

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GA has a provision like that since our lights suck, some dont even pick up small cars as well as bikes
I carry a copy of the statute with me because I have been pulled over for that before...the cop was a particular prick about it when he had to let me go...lol
 
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