So I'm taking some heat from the other forum about safety gear.

[VEGASRIDER]

Apparently, there is a thread where members are asked to loan out their riding pants so that other riders can take a free Lee Parks advanced riding class. Here's the pasted thread:

"Lee Parks is doing his Advanced Riding course for the guys at Creech air force base by indian springs Friday and Saturday. The base is paying for the guys to go through the course.

Problem 1 300 riders only 36 positions available, so they have to do a lottery. We don't yet know who is taking the class yet.

Problem #2 (bigger one) Many of the guys don't have the required riding pants to take the class.

We are looking for loaners for the guys who take the class.

What they need to have are either riding jeans (ICON, Draggin Jeans etc.) textile riding pants, or even Chaps over regular Jeans.

Anything you could do?

Please PM me if you can help...thanks!"

I responded by posting this:

Don't really want to sound selfish or rude, but if a rider doesn't take on the responsiblity of owning a pair of proper riding pants which is a part of essential riding gear, he or she has no business taking the class.

Then another member replied with this:

"Vegasrider I do agree with wearing the proper gear, but these pants are not required to get on base/take the mandatory MSF Basic Rider Course/or required to be worn as per Nevada state law....

So why would your average joe go out and buy them? Simple answer is they wouldn't, the average NEW rider is usually concerned about going fast, and looking good doing it (flashy jacket, gloves, and a helmet) Personal safety is usually not Number 1 on their list when purchasing a new bike, which is extremely sad.

Plus everyone who entered the "Lottery" was unaware of the pants requirements prior to being notified of their win. They found out today [09MAR09] if they won or not and they were also notified that they would need....X....Y....Z.....gear to be worn."

He does have a valid point, but I guess the point is: I'm just surprised that there are so many riders without riding pants. Not sure how to respond. I guess I'm just kind of anal when it comes to safety gear.

 

[detpilot]

I had to buy boots, gloves, and a helmet for my MSF class. Considering I didn't plan on getting a bike until the next year, I would not have wanted to buy riding pants to cruise around a parking lot at 10mph either. Why not require rain gear as well?

Of course, now that I have my bike, I wear bohn under-pant armor. But if you saw me on the street, you'd think I had regular pants on too- because I do.... over the armor.

I think a helmet, boots, and gloves (Didn't have to be riding boots or gloves either, just had to cover the hand and boots had to cover the ankle) were more than fair for a basic motorcycle course. Some people didn't even know if they'd like it, they were just giving the course a try.

 

[Nelly]

Well I think that you make a more valid point. If your serious about riding then you gear up. Just because you are taking a course doesn't preclude you from ever coming off your bike. We are not at the end of March yet and we have had 4 riders come off this season already. All of them were wearing gear and all of them were intact.

Also I believe strongly that riding gear should be a one crash deal, if you lend your gear out is it going to be replaced if the rider goes down?
[edit] the draw has taken place, I missed that.

Nelly:thumbup:

 

[Stumbles06]

I'm with you VR, I mean, it's an Advanced Course, for people already riding...

Problem 1 300 riders only 36 positions available

So they should all have the gear. He mentioned in his reply

or required to be worn as per Nevada state law

... It's not Law anywhere (but it should be), doesn't mean these riders shouldn't have the gear... I mean, come on... Draggins aren't that expensive!!!

I'm with you mate, they should buy the pants and be safe!!!

 

[wrightme43]

Thats just goofy.

 

[keira]

following the "it isn't the law" logic, MSF courses in NH shouldn't require newbies to wear helmets, because it is not required by state law.

I'm with you on this one, but I wouldn't push it. If they don't want to go out and buy the pants, then that's their own fault, and they should forfeit their spot in the class.

 

[Mattberkshire]

It's a bit bonkers really. I know Harley riders rarely wear much gear but if you come off at 60mph it doesn't matter what bike you were on! Oh, and here in the UK pants means underpants. Makes me wonder if all you stateside riders have special armoured undies!!!!:thumbup:

 

[wolfc70]

The people taking the course should buy the pants. It is the Advanced course, so you are doing more work with the dynamics, so you have a better chance of road rash than the beginners course. Besides, aren't Draggin Jeans only like $100? I bought some Icon jeans on sale a few years ago for $60. I think the "winners" should suck it up and buy the proper gear, or forefit and let some other person take their spot. Protective gear is cheaper than emergency room visits and skin grafts.

 

[Deleted member 2349]

I used borrowed gear for the Basic Riders Course...I brought a pair of Mechanics gloves and borrowed safety glasses and a 3/4 helmet...prolly looked like a freak...But it was good that they had them to borrow(different than having personal folks loan out there gear).

I figured it was the last class of the season, I wasn't getting a bike until spring...and it let me save and buy stuff during the winter.

I bought a pair of overpants for work days, but only wear them until it starts to get HOT(mid summer) and also have a pair of Shift jeans for Rec riding.

Pretty bad that they didn't say what gear would be needed and then not even have a plan for problems like this...

 

[mkjeld76]

I'm with VEGASRIDER being retired military I know they have strict rules about riding and I believe the basic course is mandatory for riding on base. Plus they are paying for the advanced course so the money they save they can buy a good pair of pants.

 

[bcityroller]

While I agree that they should have the required safety equipment already I'm not sure what the right answer is given that they don't.

If someone lent them a pair of pants they'd take the class, improve their skill level and maybe find out that wearing riding pants wasn't so bad and get themselves a pair after the class. If you force them to get them ahead of the class, I'm guessing most wouldn't so they still be out there without the pants and with even less training.

So IMO it pretty much comes down to how much of a "lost cause" you assume they are going in.

 

[Cuba]

While I agree that they should have the required safety equipment already I'm not sure what the right answer is given that they don't.

If someone lent them a pair of pants they'd take the class, improve their skill level and maybe find out that wearing riding pants wasn't so bad and get themselves a pair after the class. If you force them to get them ahead of the class, I'm guessing most wouldn't so they still be out there without the pants and with even less training.

So IMO it pretty much comes down to how much of a "lost cause" you assume they are going in.

I agree. I think you guys are just going too far with it. I wear Icon jeans, it's my preference, if I didn't and I crashed, I'd get road rash and wish I had them on. But it's my right to decide my level of risk, not yours. Generally it would be a lot safer if there were 65mph limiters on your bikes, but there aren't. I don't disagree with telling people what you think they should do- you're giving good advice IMO, but don't forget that it is advice, to be taken or not.

 

[Norm]

Do they realize you have a 38 rep power? How dare they question you! j/k I agree with you. Nevada State Law or not, ATGATT is always the best policy. Part of taking an "advanced" course means recognizing that this is a dangerous pasttime. Your post is on point.

 

[necrotimus]

Its a tough call but I agree if a rider on their own initiative already had the proper gear before the course they would probably benefit more than someone who didn't simply because of the riders mindset. Probably not worth getting to worked up about... you won't be able to change anyones mind.

 

[FATHERHIGH]

My excuse............Um mm yeah if you don't mind the rash...and the itching ....I have a pair ready to go for you, don't worry the doctors say with medication you can lead a normal life!

Usually takes care of all inquiries to borrow gear....:}

 

[steveindenmark]

I agree with with your point of view. It`s like turning up for a football match without boots.
Maybe the organisers should have stipulated the dress code when they made the offer.
It seems stupid that you lend them the gear to do the course and after they have done it they get rid of the safety gear and ride without. Hardly what i would call responsible riders.

Steve

 

[Hellgate]

If the course requires the gear it is just that, a requirement. If they don't wish to comply they don't have to take the course.

In this course they will will be doing drills that put them at peg/knee dragging angles, if you do slip you may fall and get scraped up.

Besides this is a liability protection for the school. If they didn't require people to have gear and a person gets hurt, you know they would take the school to court for not make them aware of the dangers of the school. Every high performance school I've participated in over the the years has required gear and that requirement has steadily increased over the years. Back in the '70 the MRA rule book stated you could wear two pair of jeans and roadrace.

Hopefully we evolve as a sport, or we could apply Darwin's theory here.

 

[SovietRobot]

It's a bit bonkers really. I know Harley riders rarely wear much gear but if you come off at 60mph it doesn't matter what bike you were on! Oh, and here in the UK pants means underpants. Makes me wonder if all you stateside riders have special armoured undies!!!!:thumbup:

"Riding trousers" just sounds silly

 

[MarinaFazer]

My leather pants were actually the last thing I got...I got it with a jacket/pant combo from a guy who got scared and ditched everything. But jeans were fine for what I felt I was doing...nowadays though....

no leathers = no canyons....but for going to work and around town, I wear everything except the leather pants.

I agree with VR...wear the gear and if you're taking an "advanced" class, you should already have all the gear by then...I didn't have all the gear for my trackday, but I went out and got it for that specific purpose...just get what you have to!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Its a tough call but I agree if a rider on their own initiative already had the proper gear before the course they would probably benefit more than someone who didn't simply because of the riders mindset. quote]

Damn good point! May just have to use your quote on this one.

Thanks for all the replies everyone, you all made valid points, pro and cons.