This Guy is lucky!

[Erci]

Well if was going down a two land highway, a drunk driver at the last second falls asleep, over compensates and hits me head on and kills me is it my fault that I was so inexperienced I couldn't tell a passed out driver through my visor and his window? NO it's his fault for making that choice to get in his car inebriated and drive. HIS CHOICE.

Sure, it's his fault. The problem is you're dead now. Does it matter whatsoever to you whose fault it was, if you're dead? Wouldn't you rather stay alive?

This isn't about blame and pointing fingers. This is about us understanding that we do not live in a perfect world where all drivers are attentive; all have taken proper training; all know to look for motorcycles; none ever drink and drive, etc.

The world we ride in is full of careless people like the BMW driver. If the rider had proper training (MSF BRC) and applied what he'd been taught, do you think he still would have crashed? Did he need a lot of experience to avoid that crash?

If you look at any given motorcycle/car crash and the 1st thing you analyze is whose fault it was, do you think you're asking the right question?

If not, what do you think should be the first thing to analyze? Now take that 1st thing and use it on the video above and tell me what you see.

 

[FIZZER6]

Exactly right. Loud pipes do NOT save lives. They're stacking the odds in your favor by possibly making you more noticeable. As long as you don't count on them to be a magical "everyone will see me now" tool, it's a good thing. Continue assuming that each and every thing on the road that can move will do the stupidest possible thing it can do, and you should never find yourself in a crash like the rider in above video.

Agreed.

Loud pipes is NOT the key. Most people have the windows up, A/C or heat blasting and music blasting or on a cell call. They will not hear you coming!

You want cars at intersections to see you coming at intersections?

Wear one of these over your jacket:

And swerve from side to side 2-4 seconds before the intersection. I can't tell you how many times swerving approaching an intersection kept a car that was going to pull in front of me on the brakes instead!

Even with these precautions I still assume every car will pull in front of or change lanes into me.

 

[nsaP]

Anyone saying the driver should have been able to turn out of the way has shown their ignorance. This happened in Florida, no one there knows how to turn.

If you're going to say the bike should have avoided it that's fine, so long as you aren't absolving the driver. I think there's things the rider might have been able to do but it's tough to say from the 1 video with a quite bad angle of view.

The car driver also wanted to claim he was doing 80 but I think that's full of ****. Get out a timer and time that first car that goes by over a distance then do the same for the bike. He might have been speeding a bit but nowhere near 80.

 

[Motogiro]

Maybe the driver should have took a driving course. Lazy ass people can't even walk across the street they put their cars right in the middle of the road. Sure, he may have "had" time to maneuver or stop. But since I've never had this happen before I cannot speak for him as most of use would have probably reacted in the same way.

We blame riders for inexperience, and just chalk I up as a stupid driver. Well if was going down a two land highway, a drunk driver at the last second falls asleep, over compensates and hits me head on and kills me is it my fault that I was so inexperienced I couldn't tell a passed out driver through my visor and his window? NO it's his fault for making that choice to get in his car inebriated and drive. HIS CHOICE.

I think the opinions are based more on the rider's speed for the conditions. In other words some of us feel it was avoidable. It does matter how you ride. How you ride is affected by your attitude. I hold you, as a rider, more accountable because you're more at risk for injury when there is an impact.

It doesn't matter whether that person is in the wrong when your life and limb are at stake! What matters is that you're aware of your conditions as a rider. You can point your finger at the wrong doer all day and even if you convince them in the error of their ways, another one pops up to take their place.
If you could avoid the idiot as apposed to impact, death and/or injury, why wouldn't you?

If you minimally have the experience to throw a leg over, pull in the clutch, put it in gear and ride off into the sunset, you should also possess the experience of knowing the conditions you ride in and when to adjust your riding for the conditions.

 

[fastar1]

Can someone please tell me what the driver did wrong? I can only see biker riding recklessly.

Based on the location of the crash and the 1.5 seconds or so that the bike is shown in the video, and the distance he covered based on Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/wT3FH it is possible to estimate his speed at around 75mph. This is the same period during which he is braking hard, so his cruising speed was likely quite higher. The posted limit on that stretch of road is 30.

The driver, on the other hand, was crossing the street to meet the kid who just got off the bus. Of course she crossed the road slowly, as she had every right to do since she had the right of way. It would have been the biker's right of way if he were riding in a manner that allowed other road users to account for his presence.

I'm pretty disappointed with how people are defending the rider. Is it just because he's "one of us"?

BTW, the football community is equally blind to his error, since he's a college football star:
http://www.tomahawknation.com/flori...te-nick-oleary-motorcycle-crash-jack-Nicklaus
http://www.tomahawknation.com/flori...ry-crash-lexus-story-motorcycle-florida-state

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Can someone please tell me what the driver did wrong? I can only see biker riding recklessly. ]

Sigh. Not really sure how to put this.

Ok look at the car, how it pulls up right before the bike hits it, do you really think a car that is heading across the street could really pull up at that angle and cut it in the opposite direction to go the way traffic is soposed to go without backing up or hopping the curb? If they would have pulled up 15 feet up te street and faced the way traffic is supposed to go, they wouldn't have had to take 30 seconds to cross the street and get right. The bike may be speeding. But the car is taking up 2 lanes too long.

Turning radius.

 

[fastar1]

Ok look at the car, how it pulls up right before the bike hits it, do you really think a car that is heading across the street could really pull up at that angle and cut it in the opposite direction to go the way traffic is soposed to go without backing up or hopping the curb?

Absolutely she could have. She was nowhere near the point where she had to turn before running out of road.

But more importantly, in fact the only thing that matters, is that she had the right of way. So what if she had to do a 12 point turn to get facing the right way? Traffic would still be obligated by law to stop and wait for her to clear the way. That's how rights of way work.

It's not like he was riding merrily along and some car cut him off and stopped in the middle of the road. He was the one who came up on her (at over twice the typical speed of traffic over a rise in the road) and couldn't stop in time. Proof that he was riding too fast for the environment!

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Absolutely she could have. She was nowhere near the point where she had to turn before running out of road.

But more importantly, in fact the only thing that matters, is that she had the right of way. So what if she had to do a 12 point turn to get facing the right way? Traffic would still be obligated by law to stop and wait for her to clear the way. That's how rights of way work.

If he ran a red light or a stop sign where she had "the right of way" to make a left/right or whatever turn she was attempting to make yeah maybe. But then again. From the picture, she still pulled out in front of him and took up the road.

And no if someone's takes up a whole street for a lengthy amount of time it's called impeding traffic. Same as someone going 25 in a 55. It's just as dangerous as going 80 in a 55

This will a actually bring more clarity to the situation. But still only a split second to react. Looks like he grabbed a handful of front brake to me.

 

[FIZZER6]

Can someone please tell me what the driver did wrong? I can only see biker riding recklessly.

Ok. I've examined the video about 6 times.

A lot of people here are assuming the car driver was trying to turn out into the street either left (the direction the bus is facing) or right. I do not believe that to be the case!

From what I observe it appears that the car was pulling across the street in an attempt to pull in front of the bus to pick up the boy who is shown getting off the bus.

Why?

1. The car takes forever to pull out when there is no traffic coming (assuming the driver didn't see the motorcycle).

2. The car pulls out and goes straight across the road, not turning left or right, and there is nothing but a curb in the direction the car is heading.

3. The boy getting off the bus is seen stepping off the curb and walking toward the car a split second before impact (further reinforcing the theory that the car was his ride)

hmmmmmmm....................

 

[fastar1]

At that point in the video, the car had already started to proceed across the intersection 2 seconds earlier. That's about 230 feet at 80mph, which would have put him way back into to dip in the road. The driver can't see something that's not there.

 

[fastar1]

Ok. I've examined the video about 6 times.

A lot of people here are assuming the car driver was trying to turn out into the street either left (the direction the bus is facing) or right. I do not believe that to be the case!

From what I observe it appears that the car was pulling across the street in an attempt to pull in front of the bus to pick up the boy who is shown getting off the bus.

Why?

1. The car takes forever to pull out when there is no traffic coming

2. The car pulls out and goes straight across the road, not turning left or right, and there is nothing but a curb in the direction the car is heading.

3. The boy getting off the bus is seen stepping off the curb and walking toward the car a split second before impact (further reinforcing the theory that the car was his ride)

hmmmmmmm....................

That's exactly what she was doing. How does that change anything, other to explain her slow progress?

 

[fastar1]

And no if someone's takes up a whole street for a lengthy amount of time it's called impeding traffic. Same as someone going 25 in a 55. It's just as dangerous as going 80 in a 55

This will a actually bring more clarity to the situation. But still only a split second to react. Looks like he grabbed a handful of front brake to me.

Sorry, making a u-turn on the street is not illegal, regardless of how poorly some people do it (unless indicated otherwise). And she was not even doing that, she was crossing slowly to reach the kid on the other side!

 

[pookamatic]

FACT: This will not be the last post in this thread.

 

[FIZZER6]

That's exactly what she was doing. How does that change anything, other to explain her slow progress?

I think it is pretty simple. She was looking for her kid to get off this bus and she didn't look very well for traffic before slowly proceeding across the road while being mentally focused on the bus. Because she was intent on the bus and where she should pull up to pick up her kid she completely forgot she was creeping across the travel lane of a public roadway.

Inattentive driver.
Motorcyclist who was not riding defensively.
BANG!
Either the driver or the motorcyclist could have avoided this accident if either of them had been paying proper attention to their surroundings.

 

[FIZZER6]

Sorry, making a u-turn on the street is not illegal, regardless of how poorly some people do it (unless indicated otherwise). And she was not even doing that, she was crossing slowly to reach the kid on the other side!

Making a U-turn in the middle of a street is illegal in every US state I've lived in.

 

[fastar1]

Making a U-turn in the middle of a street is illegal in every US state I've lived in.

Keep in mind, she wasn't performing a U-turn, it was an example I brought up to illustrate my point about having the right of way. But from everything I can find, u-turns are legal in the vast majority of places, Tallahassee included. Regardless, she still had the right of way and was using the road in a safe and legal manner.

 

[fastar1]

Either the driver or the motorcyclist could have avoided this accident if either of them had been paying proper attention to their surroundings.

Based on the profile of the road, the speed of the biker, and the time the car started to move, it is clear that no level of driver attentiveness could have avoided this accident as there was no motorcycle rider to be seen when she started to cross the street.

 

[FIZZER6]

Based on the profile of the road, the speed of the biker, and the time the car started to move, it is clear that no level of driver attentiveness could have avoided this accident as there was no motorcycle rider to be seen when she started to cross the street.

I will give you that.

I do agree that the biker was moving a pretty good clip, especially for a residential area.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

I see at 12:16.05 the car pulls out, biker hits her on the tail end of 12:16.06-07.

So, how far up the road does the road curve? From te video I can see pretty far. Guy must have been going 180mph to cover that much ground in 2 seconds.

Must have been one of those in a hurry to get out In front of you but not on a hurry to go any where.

One guy did this to me and stopped turning thank god. I skidded right past his pumper. I had just pulled out up the road and was going 45. And I even knew he was going to do it.

 

[fastar1]

It's hard to tell where exactly the bike dips below the crown of the road because the camera is mounted to the top of the bus, not at the driver's level. I would guess it would be about 300 ft, or 100 yards, which in 2 seconds works out to about 100mph. Considering his average speed while braking was 75mph, cruising at 100 is conceivable.

Frankly, if the rider's helmet was just popping above the horizon when the driver initiated her maneuver I still wouldn't blame the driver at all. Nobody should have to be so cautious that they're looking for helmet-sized objects 300 feet away doing 3x the speed limit in a residential area. Do you do it every time you pull onto a street?