Valve check results @ 23,800 miles

[z2345]

Thought I'd share:

1 2 3 4
E .203 .216 .203 .152 .241 .215 .216 .216
Good: .23-.3

1 2 3 4
I .140 .140 .140 .140 .140 .140 .165 .165
Good: .13-.2

Questions:

Does the direction that the crankshaft is spun in 180 degree intervals to measure each cylinder matter? The manual states CCW, but when I started with #1 TDC on the compression stroke (cam lobes facing away from each other) as stated in the service manual, when I go 180 CCW, the lobes are slightly compressing cylinder #2 valves. When I go CW, each cylinder's valves are completely closed (how I assume the clearance should be measured).

So now I have to take the cam's off, and see what pads are on there to replace them with slightly smaller ones, correct?


Thanks!

 

[adberns]

Wow, thanks for posting the results. Surprised to see all the exhaust valves but one out of spec. How do you ride?

I'll let others comment on the valves that have actually done them. I've never done a shim-and-bucket setup.

 

[z2345]

This is my first bike. Most of the miles have been fairly tame. Nothing super aggressive other than some quick accelerations during a lot of back road riding.

 

[dpaul007]

Thought I'd share:

So now I have to take the cam's off, and see what pads are on there to replace them with slightly smaller ones, correct?

I believe so, but don't quote me on that. I've never done mine, but will be doing it some time next fall. Also, what year is your fz?

 

[FinalImpact]

Thought I'd share:

1 2 3 4
E .203 .216 .203 .152 .241 .215 .216 .216
Good: .23-.3

1 2 3 4
I .140 .140 .140 .140 .140 .140 .165 .165
Good: .13-.2

Questions:

Does the direction that the crankshaft is spun in 180 degree intervals to measure each cylinder matter? The manual states CCW, but when I started with #1 TDC on the compression stroke (cam lobes facing away from each other) as stated in the service manual, when I go 180 CCW, the lobes are slightly compressing cylinder #2 valves. When I go CW, each cylinder's valves are completely closed (how I assume the clearance should be measured).

So now I have to take the cam's off, and see what pads are on there to replace them with slightly smaller ones, correct?


Thanks!

Counter clockwise is correct: From TDC (NOTE: TDC on the compression stroke can be found when the camshaft lobes are turned away from each other). TDC Cyl #1 (left side of bike, both valve closed) Starting with TDC @
0 deg #1
180 deg #2
360 deg #4
540 deg #3

When piston #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, align the TDC mark “a” on the pickup rotor with the crankcase mating surface “b”. (Sorry - no picture, use your imagination! :spank:

Here; just throwing the spec in so everyone can see where your at:

Valve clearance (cold)
Intake:
0.13–0.20 mm (0.0051–0.0079 in)
Exhaust:
0.23–0.30 mm (0.0091–0.0118 in) EDIT: My bad, You DID list the spec!

 

[z2345]

Counter clockwise is correct

But when I go 180 ccw to measure #2, the cam lobes are in contact with the valve lifters.

I believe so, but don't quote me on that. I've never done mine, but will be doing it some time next fall. Also, what year is your fz?

2009

 

[z2345]

So the one exhaust valve that measured .152 had a .180 pad underneath. To bring it to the smallest clearance, I need .102 pad. I've only seen .120 pad as the smallest sold.

Will it be a problem if I just put a .120 in? What do I do next time when I assume the gaps go down yet again?

 

[adberns]

I believe the shims can be bought all the way down to 1.85 mm, which would be about 0.07"...

A 0.120 shim would put you in-spec, and in-spec means in-spec, so it'd be OK. I may get a shim to get a little closer to the middle of the range if I were you.

Edit: Saw a Hot Cams kit that actually comes down to 1.2mm.

 

[z2345]

I believe the shims can be bought all the way down to 1.85 mm, which would be about 0.07"...

A 0.120 shim would put you in-spec, and in-spec means in-spec, so it'd be OK. I may get a shim to get a little closer to the middle of the range if I were you.

Edit: Saw a Hot Cams kit that actually comes down to 1.2mm.

A 1.2mm shim puts just out of spec at .212 mm. Any ideas why this one would be so different? Is it a big deal to have one out a few hundreds of a mm?

 

[FinalImpact]

A 1.2mm shim puts just out of spec at .212 mm. Any ideas why this one would be so different? Is it a big deal to have one out a few hundreds of a mm?

It could be valve seating into the seat, the seat into the head, the cam into bearing saddles (effects more than 1), or the individual lobes and adjacent contact button wearing.

RULE #1, Loose is better than too tight! So do what you can to make sure NONE are too tight. but being a little loose will likely just make it tick when hot.

 

[z2345]

It could be valve seating into the seat, the seat into the head, the cam into bearing saddles (effects more than 1), or the individual lobes and adjacent contact button wearing.

RULE #1, Loose is better than too tight! So do what you can to make sure NONE are too tight. but being a little loose will likely just make it tick when hot.

Is it a huge deal to have one that slight bit too tight?

 

[FinalImpact]

But when I go 180 ccw to measure #2, the cam lobes are in contact with the valve lifters.

2009

O'My. . . .
Guess what - Looking at the R6 manual shows this:

a. Turn the crankshaft clockwise.
b. When piston #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, align the TDC mark a on the pickup rotor with the crankcase mating surface b.
NOTE: @TDC on the compression stroke can be found when the camshaft lobes are turned away from each other.
c. Measure the valve clearance with a thickness gauge 1.

NOTE:
• If the valve clearance is incorrect, record the measured reading.
• Measure the valve clearance in the following sequence.



FWIW: **MOST** of the time the tensioners are on the slack side of the chain and the crank is pulling the chain straight from the cam gear to crank gear without relying on the guides to changes the chains angle.
Think of drawing a straight line. The chain being pulled in straight line needs little guidance as its being pulled and it wears the guides less which means variations over time are minimal due to wear.

With that thought in mind I HAD to look at other manuals and WALLA - MISPRINT!!! The 2007 SERVICE manual I referenced is wrong!

 

[FinalImpact]

Is it a huge deal to have one that slight bit too tight?

YES, burned VALVES = BAD!
Between the cam and the valve, there needs to be clearance as suggested by the manufactures spec. NEVER ever leave an exhaust valve too tight. It quadruples your odds of burning it vs the intake being too tight. The intake at least has cool intake charge to bring the temp down. . .

 

[z2345]

O'My. . . .
Guess what - Looking at the R6 manual shows this:

a. Turn the crankshaft clockwise.

With that thought in mind I HAD to look at other manuals and WALLA - MISPRINT!!! The 2007 SERVICE manual I referenced is wrong!

CW makes sense to me. I didn't think to look at an R6 manual. The 07 FZ6 service manual says ccw

 

[z2345]

YES, burned VALVES = BAD!
Between the cam and the valve, there needs to be clearance as suggested by the manufactures spec. NEVER ever leave an exhaust valve too tight. It quadruples your odds of burning it vs the intake being too tight. The intake at least has cool intake charge to bring the temp down. . .

So what is my next step if I can't get the gap into spec with a smaller pad?

 

[FinalImpact]

So what is my next step if I can't get the gap into spec with a smaller pad?

IMO: point the cam lobe 180 degrees AWAY from the the valve spring assembly. Double check your measurements of suspect valves. If it still comes in below the MINIMUM SPECIFICATION you must take action. Valves can't be left below the MIN spec. You have a few options:
- machine down the shim below the lowest Yama #. (It will actually need to be ground down). You'll have to check a few things first tho!
- Measure that bucket and compare it too the others. If its "thicker" between the surface and the area that contacts the valve? If so, buy a new one!
- remove material from the valve tip (pull head, pull valve)
- replace valve, valve seat, establish corrected height (pull head, pull valve).

X SWAP the bucket with another. Also - a bad IDEA as they are work hardened to the cam lobes they came from, but people do it all the time.
X machine down the bucket facing. Bad idea as its work hardened to match the cam lobe it rides on.


View attachment 45466View attachment 45467

 

[FinalImpact]

Q? so the "As Found" numbers on the 1st post, what was the cams positions? We know NOW the manual is WRONG, and when the crank is turned the Proper direction (NOT CCW) that the process can be followed. Regardless of the process, if the lobes are 180 degrees away AND it meets the Minimum spec, you are fine. SO i would recheck them before going to extensive lengths of correcting it.

My thinking is you have more OUT of spec than ever seen before and it likely would have burned a valve by now. Did you check the compression by chance? It would have low on #2 and likely #1. Because you never said anything about it loosing power and noted that turning it the proper way "looked right" for checking the valves, I bet ALL is well and when measured it is in fact fine.

The range of OEM pads is 1.20–2.40 mm (0.0472–0.0945 in), and they can be ordered through various OEMs.

Let us know what you find!

 

[PhotoAl]

That one just looks too far out to me, plus all of the valves being out of spec is ???? I checked mine and didn't have too much trouble but one or two were close.

The shim kit I bought (and didn't use) has a set from 1.20 to 2.40 and another set from 2.45 to 3.50 in 0.05 increments. Money well spent though cause by having it, I didn't need it and therefore didn't have to take the cams off.

 

[z2345]

So the one exhaust valve that measured .152 had a .180 pad underneath. To bring it to the smallest clearance, I need .102 pad. I've only seen .120 pad as the smallest sold.

Will it be a problem if I just put a .120 in? What do I do next time when I assume the gaps go down yet again?

I need to apologize to everyone. I can't do math. It's not a .180 pad. It's a 1.80 pad. Stupid decimal point :spank:

Now I have nothing to worry about other than what to do with all the ridiculously small pads I bought.

 

[z2345]

Post op:

Everything's back together now and I've put over 900 miles on it. I noticed a significant power increase. The bike doesn't feel as bogged down. It's much more zippy.

My timing chain tensioner operated smoothly, no issues. It is a bit of a pain to get back in.

I think the ticking sound from the valves has increased a slight bit. I understand this is normal.

Having taken the cams off three or four times now, I've learned to pay attention to the order of operations, and that it really isn't all that scary in there.

Thanks guys!